±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 586
Total: 586
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Downloads
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: CPGlang
36: Downloads
37: Photo Gallery
38: Your Account
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Downloads
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Downloads
55: Downloads
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Home
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Photo Gallery
78: News Archive
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Member Screenshots
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Downloads
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Photo Gallery
90: CPGlang
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Your Account
98: Community Forums
99: Statistics
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: News
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Downloads
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Your Account
132: Photo Gallery
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Photo Gallery
153: Photo Gallery
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Photo Gallery
166: Photo Gallery
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Your Account
171: Community Forums
172: Downloads
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Your Account
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Your Account
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Your Account
190: Downloads
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: CPGlang
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Your Account
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Your Account
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Photo Gallery
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Home
238: Home
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Downloads
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Statistics
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Downloads
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Downloads
264: Member Screenshots
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Downloads
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: CPGlang
293: Downloads
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: CPGlang
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Contact
318: Home
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Photo Gallery
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Downloads
342: Your Account
343: Downloads
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Member Screenshots
347: Home
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Your Account
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Downloads
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Downloads
376: CPGlang
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Downloads
389: Photo Gallery
390: Photo Gallery
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Downloads
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Downloads
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Member Screenshots
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Home
438: Community Forums
439: Statistics
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: CPGlang
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: CPGlang
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Downloads
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Downloads
478: Downloads
479: Downloads
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Member Screenshots
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: News
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Statistics
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: News Archive
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Community Forums
529: Downloads
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Home
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Downloads
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Downloads
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Downloads
552: Community Forums
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Downloads
561: Your Account
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: CPGlang
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: News
576: Photo Gallery
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Downloads
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Help w/Canadian armoured car
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dhaugh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:31 am
Post subject: Help w/Canadian armoured car

Many years ago (1985 in fact) Bart Vanderveen ran a single photo of a WWII era Canadian 8x8 armoured car with a Ram I turret in issue No 14 of "Wheels & Tracks". Unfortunately the caption didn't give much information. Does anyone know the actual designation of the car or where I might find more info? TIA dave
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Help w/Canadian armoured car

Got me!

Cant find it at www.warwheels.net/index.html...

Couldnt find it in Crow & Icks' Encyclopedia of Armoured Cars...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: Help w/Canadian armoured car

- dhaugh
Many years ago (1985 in fact) Bart Vanderveen ran a single photo of a WWII era Canadian 8x8 armoured car with a Ram I turret in issue No 14 of "Wheels & Tracks". Unfortunately the caption didn't give much information. Does anyone know the actual designation of the car or where I might find more info? TIA dave


I think it is the one discussed by David Fletcher on p. 95 of "The Great Tank Scandal". Built to a British requirement of a big 8-wheel armoured car around 1942/43, it appears to have been a prototype only built by Ford in Canada. Seems to have been an 8x8 with front and rear-wheel steering built to match the German 8-wheelers.

Thanks for posting the picture!

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
tankmodeler
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Help w/Canadian armoured car

Claus is correct as far as if goes, but more info was in Bill Gregg's "Blueprint for Victory" as well as another photo.

It seems that the design for this beast came from a meeting between a senior official at the Canadian Department of Munitions and a British officer he met in a hotel bar in Ottawa. The Brit convinced the official that he was a North Africa vet with tank design experience and that his 8 wheeled AC should be built in Canada and that he should be retained as a design consultant. The official bypassed the official design branch and ordered Ford to build it to the consultant's plans. When tested it was found to have on forward and 4 reverse gears because the chassis was reversed without changinng the output shaft rotation. This and other glaring errors casued an investigation into the Brit officer who turned out to be a nontechnical Lieutenant who had been escorting prisoners to Canada. He was sent packing, the vehicle was scrapped and the whole thing was covered up.

"It was reported that these events caused considerable amusement at the Army Engineering Design Branch."

As a design engineer, I bloody well believe it.

Paul Roberts
President, AMPS

_________________
Paul Roberts
President
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Back to top
View user's profile
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Help w/Canadian armoured car

It was called the Wolf. It arose from a August 1940 proposal by the Dept. of Munitions and Supply which was concerned that Canada lacked the heavy-engineering capacity required to produce tracked vehicles and that rather than build tanks of the tracked variety they take advantage of of Canada' s automotive industry to build "wheeled tanks" instead. Two designs were comissioned from Ford: a 4x4 with two extra floating wheels which was completed in late 1940 and quickly consigned to oblivion by the Army - which opted instead for the GM Fox I. The other was to be 6x6 (again with two extra floating wheels - DM&S had engaged the services of an exiled French colonel J. Martin-Prevel, who claimed to have experience desinging AFVs) but it grew into a 8x8 with eight-wheel steering, weighing 32,000 lbs and powered by three Ford Mercury engines. The production version was to have a Ram II turret with a 57mm gun.
The British were initally quite interested in it, having a requirement for an 8 wheeled armoured car for “fighting recce� missions in the Middle East. However in February 1942, the British purchasing mission in the USA saw and then fell in love with the even more massive T18 Boarhound, and ordered it instead. As the Canadian Army was not terribly enthused by the Wolf and as it estimated Ford needed another 18 months to get it into production, the project was cancelled in May 1942.

The Wolf and over 50 other WWII Canadian small arms, artillery and AFV projects will covered in "Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army", to be published by Serive Publications later this year ( www.servicepub.com )
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
tankmodeler
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Ontario
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: Help w/Canadian armoured car

Roger,

Wow, where did that info come from and how did Bill Gregg get so close without quite hittingthe mark?

Do you know if there really were design flaws per Bill's book or is it just because the thing went out of fashion, as it were.

Paul

_________________
Paul Roberts
President
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Back to top
View user's profile
Roger_Lucy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Help w/Canadian armoured car

Paul,
I don't know where Gregg got his information. What I learnt about the Wolf was scattered through various DND and CMHQ files at the Canadian National Archives. Unfortunately the real mother-load of detail, the project files from the Dept of Munitions and Supply have so far proved elusive. DND took charge of them after the War but where they went thereafter is anyone's guess.
Yes there were design problems, I found a quite detailed September 1941 critique of the vehicle from the British Directorate of Tank Design. In Ottawa, the Master General of Ordnance called the design "nebulous" The steering and suspension of the pilot were deemed unsatisfactory and in need of a complete redesign.
Roger
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum