±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 584
Total: 584
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Member Screenshots
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Your Account
06: Your Account
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Downloads
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: News Archive
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Photo Gallery
24: Downloads
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Your Account
33: Photo Gallery
34: Member Screenshots
35: CPGlang
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Downloads
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Member Screenshots
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: News Archive
58: Statistics
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: News Archive
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Downloads
79: Member Screenshots
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Your Account
84: Statistics
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Downloads
89: Community Forums
90: CPGlang
91: Member Screenshots
92: Photo Gallery
93: CPGlang
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: CPGlang
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Downloads
112: Photo Gallery
113: Downloads
114: Downloads
115: Member Screenshots
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Your Account
123: Photo Gallery
124: Home
125: Statistics
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Downloads
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Photo Gallery
137: Community Forums
138: Member Screenshots
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Photo Gallery
142: Member Screenshots
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Photo Gallery
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Your Account
152: Downloads
153: Community Forums
154: Downloads
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Statistics
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Your Account
173: Community Forums
174: Statistics
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: CPGlang
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Downloads
209: Community Forums
210: Home
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Home
216: Photo Gallery
217: Downloads
218: CPGlang
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Downloads
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Downloads
228: Downloads
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Downloads
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Downloads
235: Community Forums
236: News Archive
237: Photo Gallery
238: Downloads
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Photo Gallery
243: Photo Gallery
244: Photo Gallery
245: CPGlang
246: Home
247: Home
248: Your Account
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Search
257: Member Screenshots
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Home
273: Photo Gallery
274: Photo Gallery
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Your Account
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Photo Gallery
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Statistics
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Home
305: Home
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Your Account
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Photo Gallery
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Downloads
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Photo Gallery
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Home
358: Home
359: Home
360: CPGlang
361: Community Forums
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Downloads
370: Photo Gallery
371: Member Screenshots
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Home
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Statistics
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Photo Gallery
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Your Account
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Your Account
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Downloads
414: Home
415: Downloads
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: CPGlang
424: CPGlang
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Downloads
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: CPGlang
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: Downloads
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Home
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Downloads
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Home
487: Photo Gallery
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Member Screenshots
515: Member Screenshots
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Your Account
524: Home
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Your Account
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Member Screenshots
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Home
542: Your Account
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Home
549: Downloads
550: Community Forums
551: Home
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Community Forums
558: Your Account
559: Your Account
560: Home
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Downloads
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:36 am
Post subject: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Last week the Ottawa Citizen reported (front page) that the CF had denied any interest in replacing or adding to the current Leopard 1 fleet. Then someone found documents suggesting there had been talks with Germany and Switzerland for a hundred or so Leopard 2s. The story repeated remarks from the Chief of the Defence Staff about tanks not being relevant if they weren't being used, how the MGS (ie. tank annoyer) would be the answer to the CF's concept of all-wheeled and capable to 95% of the battle. The writer tied in that the C1s are now in AFG and the fleet's disposal was preempted only last summer. The story didn't have much more than that, and never had any traction. Nothing heard. Out.

Today the CBC radio noted that quote Vietnam era armoured vehicles unquote were being investigated for use by the troops. The Mercedes G-Wagons aren't able to do as much or go as many places as the unnamed M113s. No news there. As good an SUV as the G-Wagons are, they are not all terrain rough terrain vehicles. They seem to be suicide bomber magnets. They aren't overly large, and with all the go-to-war gear the boys are hauling, there was even an AD when a fellow got stitched by a C6 7.62mm MG while inside one.

The South African RG-31 seems to be a good vehicle, and are performing as advertised, but the CF only bought a couple dozen. My guess is there are more M113s in storage than money for more RG31s, and their robust-ity trumps the G-Wagon for getting around.

It is important to remember that the LAVIII has proven itself as the preeminent fighting vehicle in the Canadian arsenal, and is very very unlikely to be replaced by M113s.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
...today the CBC radio noted that quote Vietnam era armoured vehicles unquote were being investigated for use by the troops. The Mercedes G-Wagons aren't able to do as much or go as many places as the unnamed M113s. No news there. As good an SUV as the G-Wagons are, they are not all terrain rough terrain vehicles. They seem to be suicide bomber magnets. They aren't overly large, and with all the go-to-war gear the boys are hauling, there was even an AD when a fellow got stitched by a C6 7.62mm MG while inside one.

.....My guess is there are more M113s in storage than money for more RG31s, and their robust-ity trumps the G-Wagon for getting around.



I seem to recall (on the old board) a certain Roy What's-his-name and myself floating similar suggestions early on when the recent unpleasantness started...around late '03....and not in regard to Canada, either! Deja-freakin'-vu.

They aren't sexy, and they won't make anybody a lot of money, but M113's are wildly to be preferred to what amounts to uparmored SUV's when things start blowing up near you...especially when you need them in significant numbers that don't call for the investment of, say, a Bradley.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:22 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Actually the CBC story is lacking in details.

The M113A3 TLAVs will be sent to Afghanistan as a supplement to the G Wagon and LAV 3.

Reasons:

The LAV 3 is having mobility issues in certain areas not favorable to wheeled AFVs.

The G Wagon simply isn't armoured.

For those folks that don't know about the Canadian M113A3 TLAV (Tracked Light Armoured Vehicle) it is an M113A3 with an extended hull so it has six road wheels, the turret from the Grizzly AVGP, 8 x 76 mm Wegmann grenade launchers, a new power pack, new style Diehl tracks, bolt on armour, and additional stowage boxes.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Hi Doug, what's your name? Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

I seem to recall (on the old board) a certain Roy What's-his-name and myself floating similar suggestions early on when the recent unpleasantness started...around late '03....and not in regard to Canada, either! Deja-freakin'-vu.

They aren't sexy, and they won't make anybody a lot of money, but M113's are wildly to be preferred to what amounts to uparmored SUV's when things start blowing up near you...especially when you need them in significant numbers that don't call for the investment of, say, a Bradley.


Let see, keep dropping them in the sea to make new homes for sea life or send them to war where they just might save some lifes?

I remember there was a plan to fix up some U.S. vehicles and send them over. So far I have only seen one photo of an upgraded M113 from that program.

Sounds like the Canadian vehicles are versions of what some folks were calling the M-113A3+ and the M-113A4. I think the builder's name was Mobile Tactical Vehicle Light (MTVL).

It shall be interesting to hear how those vehicles do in protecting their crews and passagers.

Deja-freakin'-vu Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Doug, what's your name? Hi Folks!

Deja-freakin'-vu Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Laughing


(They never listen to us, Roy....ever since Sparky jumped the rails, any practical suggestions regarding use of the M113 get dismissed as lunatic ravings)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
J.McGillivray
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Google and thou shall find.


www.dewengineering.com.../m113.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Found this story that has other details:
"O'Connor says military 'scrambling' to find soldiers for Afghanistan
Last Updated: Sunday, November 5, 2006 | 6:45 PM ET
CBC News

Canada's military is "scrambling" to find soldiers to send to Afghanistan as it seeks to keep front-line troops from being overworked, Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor said Sunday.

"What we're trying to do in principle is try to avoid having people who are in daily operations to go back [to Afghanistan] a second time before the end of February, '09," O'Connor said, referring to the date to which Parliament extended the Afghan mission.
....

"Our efforts are to look after our men and women, to execute this mission successfully, and to reduce the risk to them as they do that work for us."

He also acknowledged the military was planning to send scores of Vietnam-era M113 armoured personnel carriers to move soldiers around the battlefield.
....

With files from the Canadian Press

There are a few voices starting to ask why the troops aren't flying from one camp to another. They say the military has insufficient and inadequate helicopters, thanks to the previous government's glacial pace with any project on military helicopters and its predecessor's fixation on COTS helos. Old clapped out Sea Kings on the ships, fewer SAR birds than before, and Bell 406's that can't be armoured AND fly in high and hot conditions.

The ripple effect has been the troops in AFG must drive just about everywhere, except when bumming rides on US, UK or Dutch Chinooks, or riding in medevac birds.
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:26 am
Post subject: Re: Canadian armour in the news - two stories in one week!

Here is another take on the German Leopard 2s. Much more detail than I'd seen elsewhere. Only $350,000 a piece.

www.ctv.ca/servlet/Art...hub=Canada

While we are on AFG armour, another forum is suggesting the M113s to be deployed are TOW Under Armour. The news stories are suggesting the infantry are carrying M72s and Carl G's for squad firepower, 60 and 81mm mortars for plunging fire, the 155mm M777 guns are doing a great job, which leaves the 25mm chain gun on the LAV as the only mobile firepower. TUA and Leopards make sense to blast walls and push back the enemy.

In the grand scheme of things, this is an example of how armies typically fight. Make the best plans possible, work the plan, and react both creatively and instinctively when the plan needs more work. It that means 84mm grunt-powered recoilless rifles so be it. Nobody is whimpering that the troops have been hung out to dry or improperly equipped.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum