±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: spadgham
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6643

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 280
Total: 280
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: CPGlang
20: Member Screenshots
21: CPGlang
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Member Screenshots
27: CPGlang
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Statistics
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Statistics
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Downloads
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Photo Gallery
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Downloads
111: CPGlang
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: CPGlang
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: CPGlang
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: CPGlang
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: CPGlang
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: CPGlang
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Photo Gallery
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: CPGlang
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: CPGlang
229: Community Forums
230: CPGlang
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Statistics
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Downloads
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: CPGlang
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Downloads
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
What is the technical term for ...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kmeyer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:21 pm
Post subject: What is the technical term for ...

the ability to have a fully tracked vehicle spin its hull while remaining stationary?
And is this accomplished by having 1 track going forward and the other
going in reverse?

Thanks
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4667
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

We always referred to this as a "neutral steer" in vehicles so capable (not all tracked vehicle were).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1438
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

'Neutral turn' is the UK version....

BTW some wheeled vehicles are capable of doing it as well...

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

It's called 'neutral steer' because normally it is done with the transmission in neutral.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

- kmeyer
the ability to have a fully tracked vehicle spin its hull while remaining stationary?
And is this accomplished by having 1 track going forward and the other
going in reverse?


There are two methods of doing this. Vehicles with a clutch-brake steering system can lock one track and transfer all power to the other and thus pivot over the locked track. In WWII that would apply to tanks like the German Panzer III and IV and the Soviet T-34. It is crude and wastes a lot of energy but works - though probably best if the ground is hard.

The other way is by means of turning the tracks in opposite directions. This can be achieved with tanks that have a separate steering drive from the engine. This can be found in many different steering systems but is basically a drive that operates at a fixed speed independant of the propulsion gear choosen. When the steering mechanism is engaged, either by clutches or brakes, the steering drive counterrotates and slows down the speed of one track throught differential or epicyclic gears. As the speed difference between the propulsion shaft and the steering drive shaft is determined by the gear choosen, you get a different steering ratio for each propulsion gear - narrow turns in low gear, wider turns in high gear. When the propulsion gearbox is in neutral, the steering drives is still turning and if you engage it by engaging the steering mechanism - pulling the steering levers - the tracks will turn in opposite directions and the tank turn on the spot. Hence the term "neutral turn". As each track is actually driven, this takes up a lot less energy than pivoting over the braked track as explained above.
This applies to British tanks like the Cromwell and Churchill or German tanks like the Panther and Tiger I and II, even though the actual steerings systems used were different. The French Char B1 had a rather clever version of this system, where the steering drive was turning a hydraulic drive, allowing and infinite number of steering ratios. It was needed, because it was the only means by which the hull mounted 75mm gun could be aimed - by the driver!

I've been told that even today, where tanks are a lot more reliable than they were in WWII, tankers only use neutral turns if it cannot be avoided, particularily off-road as it is quite hard on the mechanical bits and can cause problems with the track. Dont know if that is generally the case?

If you go to the British Pathé homepage and find film ID no. 1976.03, there is a short sequence at the end with Panther "Cuckoo", captured by the British, doing, among other things, a neutral turn.

[edit:] Just stumbled on another sequence on the British Pathé homepage, showing an FT-17 first struggling to run over a road sign, then doing a partial turn over one braked track. Its ID no. 1918.23

Claus B

PS: British Pathé can be found at www.britishpathe.com/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

The little experience I had actually driving a tank was in an M48A1. Neutral steering was easy. You put the transmission in Netral and turned the steering wheel ( a sort of Sideways figure 8 shape) in the direction you wanted to turn. The M48 was fun to drive the transmission wasa 2 speed automatic (I always wondered if it was related to the old Chevy Powerglide) as you were driving and you wanted more power you slapped it into low range, when you wanted to make more speed you slapped it into high. That was back when I was in ROTC. Funny thing was I didn't have a drivers license yet (couldn't afford the insurance) but I could drive a tank.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

- bsmart
The little experience I had actually driving a tank was in an M48A1. Neutral steering was easy. You put the transmission in Netral and turned the steering wheel ( a sort of Sideways figure 8 shape) in the direction you wanted to turn.


Perhaps too easy. I noticed that there were warnings about touching the steering levers in the Cromwell and Churchill handbooks when the engine was running and the tank in neutral. Accidentally pushing one of the levers would start the tank turning. Probably not the greatest thing if tightly parked in the motorpool or next to a wall. Smile

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4667
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Neutral steering on hard surfaces (like concrete), it went without saying, was discouraged when unnecessary because it scrubbed a lot of rubber off the ol' track blocks thus shortening replacement intervals. Leaves a spectacular tell-tale patch too that you don't want to be called upon to explain if you're just goofing around.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2052
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Hi Everyone,
Discouraged yes, exactly for that reason too Doug. But when out and about it can be a useful and FUN function, just don't get too carried away in sand or mud or you'll shed a track. Too much will accumulate and will lift the road wheels away from the center guides and then your in trouble. It also will build up between the track and sprocket carrier and roll off, even with the cut outs in it.
Claus, those warnings were also in the M1's ,M551's and M60's. That's why most units make it a rule to have a driver stay in position when the engine is running. Too many times a T-bar has been bumped getting in or out causing the tank to move and if your lucky hit the adjacent tank, a bad day is when there's someone between them. I have grabbed quite a few young troops/LT's in my day preventing them from walking between tanks that are running. They usually are parked only a couple of feet apart in the motorpool.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Thanks Joe & Doug. Always nice to get a real-world perspective Smile

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4667
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

Like Joe said, I can't recall ever leaving one of the vehicle's referenced with the engine running unattended without the driver in position.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
BAGTIC
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Missouri Ozarks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

We always called it "pivoting", to pivot
Back to top
View user's profile
Howard_Thompson
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: What is the technical term for ...

The TM 9-2350-230-12 (M551 Sheridan) Op and Org Maintenance Manual calls this maneuver PIVOT STEER and was limited to low range foward and both reverse ranges.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum