±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 788
Total: 788
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Member Screenshots
02: Photo Gallery
03: Photo Gallery
04: Member Screenshots
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: CPGlang
12: Your Account
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: CPGlang
17: Downloads
18: CPGlang
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Photo Gallery
32: CPGlang
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: CPGlang
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: CPGlang
49: CPGlang
50: CPGlang
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: News Archive
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Downloads
65: CPGlang
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: CPGlang
73: Home
74: Downloads
75: Downloads
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Your Account
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Member Screenshots
95: CPGlang
96: CPGlang
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Member Screenshots
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Member Screenshots
104: Member Screenshots
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Your Account
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Member Screenshots
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Your Account
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: News Archive
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: CPGlang
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: CPGlang
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Member Screenshots
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: CPGlang
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Member Screenshots
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Your Account
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Your Account
167: Community Forums
168: CPGlang
169: Photo Gallery
170: Photo Gallery
171: Home
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Downloads
180: Statistics
181: Community Forums
182: Downloads
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: CPGlang
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Photo Gallery
201: CPGlang
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: News Archive
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: CPGlang
217: Photo Gallery
218: CPGlang
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: CPGlang
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: News
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: CPGlang
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Downloads
239: Community Forums
240: CPGlang
241: Community Forums
242: CPGlang
243: CPGlang
244: Home
245: CPGlang
246: Downloads
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Your Account
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: CPGlang
257: Photo Gallery
258: CPGlang
259: Photo Gallery
260: Community Forums
261: Downloads
262: Community Forums
263: Downloads
264: Photo Gallery
265: Home
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: News Archive
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Home
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: CPGlang
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: CPGlang
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Your Account
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: CPGlang
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Home
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Your Account
327: Photo Gallery
328: Photo Gallery
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: CPGlang
339: Community Forums
340: News Archive
341: News Archive
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: CPGlang
347: Photo Gallery
348: Downloads
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Downloads
353: Photo Gallery
354: CPGlang
355: Home
356: CPGlang
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Photo Gallery
360: CPGlang
361: Downloads
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Photo Gallery
392: Photo Gallery
393: CPGlang
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Photo Gallery
399: Photo Gallery
400: Photo Gallery
401: Photo Gallery
402: Photo Gallery
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: CPGlang
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Downloads
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Home
415: Photo Gallery
416: Home
417: Your Account
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Photo Gallery
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Member Screenshots
426: CPGlang
427: Photo Gallery
428: CPGlang
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: CPGlang
433: Your Account
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Home
446: Home
447: CPGlang
448: CPGlang
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Community Forums
452: CPGlang
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Statistics
456: Photo Gallery
457: Home
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Home
465: Home
466: Your Account
467: Your Account
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Member Screenshots
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: CPGlang
489: Community Forums
490: CPGlang
491: Community Forums
492: Statistics
493: Member Screenshots
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Home
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Downloads
512: Home
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Statistics
517: Photo Gallery
518: Photo Gallery
519: Downloads
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Downloads
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: CPGlang
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Statistics
559: Downloads
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: CPGlang
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Downloads
573: Your Account
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Downloads
582: Community Forums
583: Home
584: Community Forums
585: Home
586: Home
587: Community Forums
588: CPGlang
589: Photo Gallery
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Member Screenshots
597: Home
598: Home
599: Photo Gallery
600: Home
601: Community Forums
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: CPGlang
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Photo Gallery
611: Downloads
612: Photo Gallery
613: Photo Gallery
614: Community Forums
615: Downloads
616: Photo Gallery
617: CPGlang
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Home
621: Photo Gallery
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: CPGlang
625: Home
626: CPGlang
627: Community Forums
628: Photo Gallery
629: Community Forums
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: CPGlang
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: CPGlang
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Photo Gallery
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Photo Gallery
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Photo Gallery
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Home
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Downloads
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: CPGlang
663: Photo Gallery
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Photo Gallery
667: Photo Gallery
668: Community Forums
669: News
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: CPGlang
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: Member Screenshots
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Photo Gallery
679: Community Forums
680: Photo Gallery
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: CPGlang
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Photo Gallery
689: CPGlang
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Community Forums
693: Home
694: Photo Gallery
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Home
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Photo Gallery
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Photo Gallery
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: CPGlang
714: CPGlang
715: Community Forums
716: CPGlang
717: Community Forums
718: Photo Gallery
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: CPGlang
730: CPGlang
731: Photo Gallery
732: Community Forums
733: Community Forums
734: News Archive
735: Photo Gallery
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Your Account
739: Photo Gallery
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Photo Gallery
745: Community Forums
746: CPGlang
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Photo Gallery
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Member Screenshots
756: Community Forums
757: CPGlang
758: Member Screenshots
759: Home
760: Community Forums
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Photo Gallery
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Downloads
770: Community Forums
771: Photo Gallery
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Your Account
775: Community Forums
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Downloads
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: News Archive
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Downloads
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Stryker MGS
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Stryker MGS

Hi CIA Agents and all other folks!

Found the following photos over at the the US Army mil web site. Looks like the MGS is finally getting into the hands of the crews who will be using them. These photos are of the 1st SBCT, 25th ID at Ft Wainwright.



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7618



For the smaller version and the caption:

www.army.mil/-images/2...09/05/7619

My 2 cents, think of the MGS as an upgrade from the M151 jeep with a M40/106mm RR carring six rounds of HEAT. Don't think of it as a down grade from a MBT.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
mumfordlibrarian
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane. In fact it was pretty much being slowly taken out of the active force when there was a competition for a new NATO standard strike plane. Lockheed took the basic shape of the F-104 and redisgned everyrhing about it. New airframe, new wings, new cockpit new (upward firing) ejection seat (The original F-104 ejection seat ejected downward, not a good idea for a strike plane that would operate primarily down on the deck). This was designated the F-104G (except in Canada where I think it was the F-104D but I will have to check) The F-104G got a bad reputation early on. It was later figured out that most of the problem was that the plane was much hotter than the F-84s and G-91s that most of the pilots had been used to. As pilot training and experience went up the track record got better. But thinking the late model F-104s that were used as strike aircraft were the same ones as the early F-104C that the USAF used is like saying the M46 and the M60 are both Patton tanks

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Paul! Hi Folks!

- mumfordlibrarian

Roy this seems to be a "walks like a duck" vehicle. The Army seems to be insisting that this is not an anti-tank weapon.

Paul T. Weaver
mumfordlibrarian


I think the trick to that would be to use some airplane thinking.

Many fighter planes where built to be used as a fighter. A number of those same fighter planes could be used as bombers.

A good example might be the F104 Starfighter. Clearly a fighter plane, yet during Vietnam, the Air Force hung bombs off them and used them to attack ground targets.

Now it can carry bombs and it can attack ground targets, so it's a bomber right? No, it's a fighter plane that if need be can be used as a bomber.

The MGS is a bit like those old F104s, it can be used to kill tanks, but that is not it's main job. The primary job is direct heavy fire support for the infantryman in contact with enemy infantry.
It's not a duck, but it can, if need be quack like a duck.

Tank killing in the Stryker BCT is the primary job of the TOW carriers.

Just keep telling yourselfs, it's not a tank, it's not a tank, it's not a tank.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


at the 2006 Armor Symposium, I met up with one of my former TC's from one of my tank platoons. An excellent NCO who really knew his stuff. He had been on the MGS for a couple of years. Amoung other things he simply reinforced the point that the MGS, IS NOT A TANK Shocked , and its primary function is 'Infantry Support".

I equated the parallels of its stated mission, to of the Ontos. Totally dedicated to the role of 'Infantry Support'. (Although the Ontos was classified as a 'Tank Destroyer'.

The problem I think is the mistaken belief that the MGS is a subsitute/replacement for the AGS or even the Sheridan.

The Air Force analogy is a bit off. I was actually surprised that Bob didn't write that.... Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

(ROY you are hereby fined 50 COOL points!! Cool Don't let that happen again..!!)

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I like your general analogy but you chose the wrong example. If you had said F-100 or F-4 I would totally agree but the F-104 was the one totally wrong answer. The U.S. never used the F-104 as a ground attack plane.

Shocked Say what? Confused
Bob, this VERY OLD JARHEAD is going to have to bring you up to date on some very old history.

During 1966 into the first half of 1967, an Air Force F104 Starfighter unit based at Da Nang, RVN was sending those birds up with ONE BOMB under each wing.

Also this old Scout must report that during one FTX at Hohenfels FRG, sometime around 1975 or 1976, while conducting Castle Guard for the Battalion TOC, the TOC was attacked by four West German F104s. I would guess that if those German F104s were conducting that type of mission during peace time, they were planning on using those A/Cs for that type of mission against Warsaw Pack AFVs.

I though about using the F4, but I went with the F104 because I feel it is possible the best example of something build to do one thing and commanders turned around and used it for something it could just barely do.

Some of my very old history. Sorry no pictures to help back up my claims. Crying or Very sad
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Not doubting your claims. Let me check a couple sources this evening about the Vitenam connection.

The German connection is no problem. That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability. To bring it full circle the Italians later reworked the F-104G design with new radar and missles into the F-104S which was a primary all weather interceptor that even carried AIM-7 Sparrow missles in addition to the AIM-9 Sidewinders that were always available on the F-104G

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

That was the F-104G that was a complete redesign of the plane under the same name. The G model was designed as a strike fighter first with a secondary Air to Air capability.


Say what? Shocked Strike Fighter! Shocked Shocked
Will that just shows you all how little I know about things with wings!

I hope you find something on the miss use of the F104 in Vietnam. I know their were not flying CAS missions for the Marines, so I guess they were either going out west or up north.

Time for bed, later folks!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

"G-71 coming to assist element of second platoon, over!" Laughing

(This is an excerpt from a longer article, Joe Baugher is a recognized source, listed at bottom)


"The F-104C (Lockheed Model 483-04-05) was the tactical strike version of the Starfighter. It was designed to meet the needs of the Tactical Air Command (TAC), which had earlier found the F-104A to be unacceptable because of its low endurance and its inability to carry significant offensive payloads.

In April of 1965, a single squadron (the 476th TFS) of the 479th TFW deployed with their F-104Cs to Kung Kuan AB in Taiwan, with regular rotations to the forward base at Da Nang Air Base in South Vietnam. Their job was to fly MiG combat air patrol (MiGCAP) missions to protect American fighter bombers against attack by North Vietnamese fighters. They flew these missions armed with their single M61A1 20-mm cannon and four AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. The effect of F-104 deployment upon NVN and PRC MiG operations was immediate and dramatic--NVN MiGs soon learned to avoid contact with USAF strikes being covered by F-104s. During the entire deployment of the 476th only two fleeting encounters between F-104Cs and enemy fighters occurred.

As the MiG threat abated, the 476th TFS was tasked with some weather reconnaissance and ground attack missions. A few of these were against targets in North Vietnam, but most of them were close air-support missions against targets in the South under forward air controller direction. The F-104s were fairly successful in this role, gaining a reputation for accuracy in their cannon fire and their bombing and capable of quite rapid reaction times in response to requests for air support. During this period, the 476th F-104s maintained an in-commission rate of 94.7%, a testimony both to the quality of 476th maintenance personnel and to the simplicity and maintainability of F-104 systems. However, an F-104 went down during a sortie 100 nm SSW of DaNang on June 29. The pilot was rescued with minor injuries.

The 436th TFS assumed the 476th's commitment in DaNang on 11 July, and the 436th began flying combat sorties the next day. Although a few MiGCAP missions were flown, the majority of the missions were quick-reaction close-air support missions in support of ground troops. On July 23, Capt. Roy Blakely attempted to crash-land his battle-damaged F-104C at Chu Lai. Blakely successfully set his aircraft down gear-up, but died when his F-104 swerved off the runway into a sand dune. "

Source: home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Looks like I blew it

I haven't found the book I'm looking for but that's okay. I thought the F-104s had been deployed as Anti Mig cover but not used as attack aircraft. Part of my confusion was mis remembering a picture of an F-106 with a bomb under it's wing that was done as a joke on the commander of Air Defence Command. PACAF F-102s were deployed to Bien Hoa and Da Nang in Vietnam and Udorn and Don Muang in Thailand as Air Defence but eventually withdrawn by 1969 without ever engaging in combat.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes

Oh Doug thanks for reminding me about Joe Baughers aircraft pages. I had been there before but in a series of machine replacements had lost the links. His coverage is excellent. This is his page on the F04s acceptance as a NATO strike fighter.
home.att.net/~jbaugher...04_11.html
He leaves some questions unanswered that are actually well known. Let's just say that there were cases of Bribery involving Lockheed and some European officials that were strong enough that Lockheed now has a VERY STRONG ethics program and annual training about 'Truth in Negotiations', 'Foreign Corrupt Practices' and other ethics courses are now mandatory annual training throughout Lockheed Martin

Oh I found it interesting that of the 722 Starfighters ordered for the USAF only 296 were delivered before the contract was cancelled. The NATO deal was all AFTER that.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- bsmart
.

I shoulkd have known not to try and correct a scout Rolling Eyes



Scouts always stand to be corrected...where you went so horribly wrong was bring to one under fire without keeping in mind that since scouting is their primary function, they normally will not engage unless they know they've got another element in position to bring mutually supporting fire to bear in case it's needed. Laughing ( "G" Troop emerges victorious.)

But hey, you're Air Force, how could you could know? Don on the other hand.....(and does this mean Roy gets his "cool points" back? Mr. Green )

I think somewhere in there the article also notes that F104's also got credit for no air-to-air kills in VN, but that needs to be double checked.

AND....I owe my familiarity with Joe Baugher's pages to....Jeff Button, an 11C turned Transportation (where'd he go, anyway?), so there you go...we be's multidiciplinary at the AFV DG!


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


There already are several 'floating' around the AFV DG.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Mr. Green

sorry....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

- piney
does that mean we have to invite swabbies? Laughing

Jeff Lewis


I don't know about swabbies but there is at least one COASTIE in the group (Someone has to be able to do the maritime safety check before we try and swim an M113)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)


Last edited by bsmart on Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Stryker MGS

Hello fellow CIA Agents and other folks!

To the TC of G71, super thanks for the overwatching support as I took some time out to get some much needed sleep. Well done Sir! That was some heavy duty intell reporting.

To Dontos, did I lose 50 cool points for talking about things with wings or was because I caught you off guard about the history of the F104 in Vietnam?

As for the subject of "swabbies". Well lets see, they have "V" things that are armored and are used to fight from. I would call those super heavy AFVs and therefor more than qualified to be members of this "multidiciplinary" CIA team.

Thanks for the backup G71! "Allons"
Sgt, Scouts Out1

P.S.
As the number ONE conducter of "Alertness Tests" to see if anyone is paying attention to my "flobs ups" I must say that someone has always been there to correct my misinformation so other members will get the correct facts. For all those times, I thank you all.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum