±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 525
Total: 525
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Home
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: CPGlang
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Downloads
45: Member Screenshots
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Your Account
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Member Screenshots
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Downloads
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: CPGlang
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: News Archive
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Downloads
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Photo Gallery
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: CPGlang
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Your Account
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Downloads
133: Statistics
134: News
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Member Screenshots
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Downloads
152: Community Forums
153: Photo Gallery
154: Home
155: Downloads
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Your Account
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Member Screenshots
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Member Screenshots
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Downloads
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Your Account
197: News
198: Photo Gallery
199: Photo Gallery
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Your Account
206: Downloads
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Downloads
210: Photo Gallery
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Member Screenshots
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: CPGlang
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Photo Gallery
236: Downloads
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Downloads
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Downloads
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Downloads
265: Photo Gallery
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Your Account
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Your Account
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Downloads
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: News
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Member Screenshots
316: Statistics
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Member Screenshots
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Photo Gallery
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Your Account
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: CPGlang
341: Community Forums
342: Downloads
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Downloads
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Downloads
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Photo Gallery
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Tell a Friend
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Your Account
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: CPGlang
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Home
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Home
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Statistics
425: Home
426: Your Account
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Your Account
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Photo Gallery
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Home
447: Downloads
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: CPGlang
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Statistics
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Downloads
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Your Account
478: Photo Gallery
479: Photo Gallery
480: Downloads
481: Community Forums
482: Home
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: CPGlang
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Member Screenshots
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Photo Gallery
505: Home
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Your Account
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Downloads
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Home
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Downloads
524: Home
525: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
3 churchills
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:17 pm
Post subject: 3 churchills

photos of the3 churchills at bovington

dennis

community.webshots.com...ity=kRviGZ
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Thank you for more great photos.

Question: what is the main armament on the first tank? To me it looks like a 17 Pounder.....but i thought the Churchill's turret was too small for a gun that big.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:02 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Good eyes! Thats actually a Black Prince, not technically a Churchill. It was based on the Churchill though...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

This seems to be a real mess of pics taken on "Black Price" or "Super Churchill" (17 pdr), postwar model, Churchill Mk. VII (75 mm US origin ammo) and a pretty rare early Churchill Mk.I (A 22) probably?? with 40 mm gun turret mounted and 76,2 mm hull mounted howitzer...

Some points on early mark Churchill which seem to be strange from my point of view:
- the shape of turret I am not familiar with (a test or pre-production vehicle?)
- late "all round vision" commander's cupola
- different elevation angle of gun and coax MG
- a mixture of two types of road wheels

Bloody well done, thanks.


Last edited by palic on Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Neil_Baumgardner
Good eyes! Thats actually a Black Prince, not technically a Churchill. It was based on the Churchill though...

Neil



Thank you! I had heard of the Black Prince, but never seen one. Until today!
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:45 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- palic
This seems to be a real mess of pics taken on "Black Price" or "Super Churchill" (17 pdr), postwar model, Churchill Mk. VII (75 mm US origin ammo) and a pretty rare early Churchill Mk.I (A 22) probably?? with 40 mm gun turret mounted and 76,2 mm hull mounted howitzer...

Some points on early mark Churchill which seem to be strange from my point of view:
- the shape of turret I am not familiar with (a test or pre-production vehicle?)


This particular Churchill Mk I was discussed on here before. The turret appears to be original - albeit with a cut-down barrel.



www.com-central.net/in...=churchill

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- Jinx

Thank you! I had heard of the Black Prince, but never seen one. Until today!


Here's a pic I took of the same tank two years ago - it appears they have spaced them out more. Hopefully I can get some good shots if I get to go this summer...



Closeup of the turret



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
palic
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:50 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

ToNeil_Baumgardner: Thank you for zeroing me in the thread on pics taken in Bovvy...
I was there 5 yers ago and have to say some exhibits were hidden that day.
"Black Prince" is really pretty interesting beast...
I think BP and Centurion are/were tanks with TC cupola moved from left to right position on the turret roof. Compare that with Cromwell and Churchill etc.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

There is a fair amount that is always hidden away - true for just about any large museum like Bovington.

Take a look at Dennis' "Bovington unseen" albums.

community.webshots.com...wbridge5/4

The Churchill Mk I appears to have been rotated out from storage, in place of the wierd T-72 vismod Vickers tank that was at the same spot for many years.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

For a long time i have wondered something about the Churchill: why are its road wheels so small? Tanks like the Sherman and T-34 have large road wheels, Panzer Mks. III and IV have medium-sized wheels, Panthers and Tigers and variants have complicated interweaved - and large - wheels.....but the Churchill really stands out with those little casters down there. Any rationale for that?

I know the earlier Matilda tanks - both Mks. I and II - had small road wheels, but they were much smaller and lighter vehicles. And the post-war Conqueror had rather small wheels, too.....so could this be a British thing? Most other British tanks - i.e. the cruisers (including the Centurion), the Chieftans and Challengers - have large wheels.....but not the Churchill, Matilda(s), and Conqueror.

And are the small road wheels the main reason why these tanks are all quite slow? Or is that more of a power-to-weight ratio issue?
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

The Churchill was the last in the line of 'Shelled Ground Tanks' which goes back to the original Heavy Tanks of WWI. The long track length was meant to give it a good trench crossing ability combined with the ability to support infantry assaults across heavily shelled ground.

The larger wheels and longer travel suspension systems used by other tanks in WWII, Whether it was torsion bar, Christie, Volute spring suspension or some other were needed on those tanks because of the higher speed of the modern 'cruiser' tanks. The Churchill wasn't fast (neither was its ancester the Matilda) It's max speed was 15 MPH with a crosscountry speed of about 8 MPH. At those speeds it didn't need a complex suspension.

The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension. The Churchill had small individual coil springs at each wheel station.

I am leaving on a trip early in the morning so I'll be out of touch for a week. So if I don't respond to a thread you'll know why.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:49 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart
The Churchill was the last in the line of 'Shelled Ground Tanks' which goes back to the original Heavy Tanks of WWI. The long track length was meant to give it a good trench crossing ability combined with the ability to support infantry assaults across heavily shelled ground.



Well, i guess in the Churchill's case, any suspension is preferable to no suspension.


The larger wheels and longer travel suspension systems used by other tanks in WWII, Whether it was torsion bar, Christie, Volute spring suspension or some other were needed on those tanks because of the higher speed of the modern 'cruiser' tanks. The Churchill wasn't fast (neither was its ancester the Matilda) It's max speed was 15 MPH with a crosscountry speed of about 8 MPH. At those speeds it didn't need a complex suspension.



Soooo.....since it was never intended to go fast, they designed it so that it couldn't go fast? (I wonder how many committees it took to come up with that plan.....?)


The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension. The Churchill had small individual coil springs at each wheel station.



The following webpage has six photos of Conquerors. Maybe it's because it is so large a tank, but those wheels do look rather small to me.

home.freeuk.net/armour.../fv214.htm

But maybe it's just me.


I am leaving on a trip early in the morning so I'll be out of touch for a week. So if I don't respond to a thread you'll know why.



I hope you have a good trip!
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:55 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Here is a good side view of a Conqueror taken from the link i posted above.

I definitely wouldn't call those large wheels.....but i guess you might be able to make a case for "medium".


Back to top
View user's profile
Chris_C
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 214
Location: WV, USA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

- bsmart
The Centurian was the first of a new line of 'Universal Tanks' that combined both the Infantry and Crusier tank line. I never thought the Conquerer had that small of wheels. And it did have a torsion bar suspension.
Centurion and Conqueror both used Horstman type suspensions, did they not?
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: 3 churchills

Hello Jinx,
Were is this Conqueror (and Cent in the background) located??

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum