±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 738
Total: 738
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Your Account
10: Community Forums
11: News
12: Community Forums
13: Your Account
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Downloads
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: CPGlang
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Your Account
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Home
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Member Screenshots
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Downloads
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Your Account
58: Downloads
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: News
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: News Archive
85: Downloads
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: News Archive
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Downloads
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: News Archive
120: CPGlang
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Photo Gallery
134: Member Screenshots
135: Member Screenshots
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: CPGlang
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Search
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: CPGlang
164: Community Forums
165: Downloads
166: CPGlang
167: Community Forums
168: Member Screenshots
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Home
185: Downloads
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: CPGlang
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Member Screenshots
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Downloads
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: News
204: Downloads
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: CPGlang
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: News Archive
228: Downloads
229: News
230: Downloads
231: Search
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Your Account
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Downloads
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: CPGlang
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Photo Gallery
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: CPGlang
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Member Screenshots
301: Downloads
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Photo Gallery
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: CPGlang
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Home
362: News Archive
363: Photo Gallery
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Member Screenshots
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Statistics
379: Photo Gallery
380: Home
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Your Account
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Your Account
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Member Screenshots
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Downloads
417: Home
418: Statistics
419: Home
420: Photo Gallery
421: Statistics
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Downloads
427: Your Account
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Downloads
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Home
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Your Account
452: Home
453: Home
454: CPGlang
455: Community Forums
456: Downloads
457: Photo Gallery
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Downloads
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: News Archive
468: Home
469: Community Forums
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: CPGlang
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Downloads
493: Home
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Downloads
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: News
517: Member Screenshots
518: Community Forums
519: CPGlang
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Member Screenshots
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Home
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Member Screenshots
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Home
559: Home
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Home
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Community Forums
568: Member Screenshots
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Home
580: News
581: Home
582: Downloads
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Home
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Community Forums
593: Member Screenshots
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: Your Account
608: Home
609: CPGlang
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: CPGlang
613: Community Forums
614: Photo Gallery
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Photo Gallery
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: CPGlang
631: Community Forums
632: Photo Gallery
633: CPGlang
634: Home
635: Photo Gallery
636: CPGlang
637: Community Forums
638: Photo Gallery
639: Community Forums
640: Photo Gallery
641: Downloads
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Photo Gallery
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Photo Gallery
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Photo Gallery
661: Photo Gallery
662: Photo Gallery
663: Home
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: CPGlang
668: News Archive
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Home
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Photo Gallery
679: Photo Gallery
680: Home
681: Photo Gallery
682: Community Forums
683: Home
684: Community Forums
685: CPGlang
686: Home
687: Your Account
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Downloads
694: Community Forums
695: News Archive
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Downloads
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Statistics
704: Member Screenshots
705: Home
706: Home
707: Photo Gallery
708: CPGlang
709: Photo Gallery
710: Home
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: CPGlang
715: Community Forums
716: Photo Gallery
717: Photo Gallery
718: Home
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Home
722: Your Account
723: Community Forums
724: Photo Gallery
725: Photo Gallery
726: Photo Gallery
727: Downloads
728: Downloads
729: Photo Gallery
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Photo Gallery
733: Photo Gallery
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Photo Gallery
738: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Merkava? Not!!!!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:18 am
Post subject: Merkava? Not!!!!

I found this a while back in a Time article IIRC.

Larger Image>ComCentral

Story was about Hezbolla and the recent Lebenon fight with Israel. Caption read "Captured Israeli Tank displayed in Hezbolla Museum" or something like that. Went on about how they we giving a "Nickle Tour" to the press. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker too.

The press will believe anything if they want to Laughing

Joe D

BTW, what tank is it Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
RKlaus
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Someday the big news magazines and networks will realize that they need to hire (at a substantial salary) an experienced military technology wonk to look at their articles before they go to press. It will save them no end of embarrassment.

Someone like, me, for example. Ah, someday...

Robert Klaus
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Nice fantasy vismod though Smile

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Hi Folks!

- Rikard_Hufschmied

Nice fantasy vismod though Smile


Looking at the turret hatchs and the gun matel, that's a T-55 under all that?

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
recceboy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Edmonton,Alberta
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Yup
It is a T-55 under that added armour , after seeing lots of them over the years. Nice mock up , not very accurate.






"Gone toe to toe with the Taliban, and won."
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

That's it,

DG's like this one are not hard to access, all it would take is said reporter/editor to post just the picture and get the esteemed members of this board to comment. Anytime I see any such mistakes in books, TV, news, etc it makes me suspect to it's credibility. Worse even if it claims to be a reference/ information article such as Wiki. After going through their M60 stuff I don't trust anything they put out. Way too many mistakes and most of the wrong stuff can be traced back to certain works put out much earlier, perpetuating the bad info.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
RKlaus
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Here's the thing that bothers me when I see a story like this.

It's easy to laugh this off as a silly mistake on the part of the reporter and give him a break, after all, should we really expect a media type to have the specialised knowledge that we do? Just make the correction in your mind and move on.

But when you consider the number of such mistakes, misidentified weapons and equipment, footage depicting US troops in Iraq that is actually Canadians in Afghanistan, and so on, you realise it's not just an occasional slip, it's systematic sloppiness.

Now the disturbing part. What mistakes are they making that you don't recognise? Are their errors as bad in areas you are not familiar with as in ones you are?

Robert
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

EXACTLY

Always use at least 2 sources and always look at the source before you believe it.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

And make sure they are two INDEPENDENT sources. If your second source got his information from someone who got it from your first source you still only have ONE SOURCE

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Hi Guys!

I received this link from Costas in Greece which has some photos of that tank before it was placed in a hole.

www.militaryphotos.net...p?t=116153

Enjoy, sorry for the very late post on this subject.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dubliner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Never knew this vehicle was a runner in Hezbolla service

On Youtube there is a video of this VISMOD and another prop Merkava being blowup by a large charge placed under the vehicle.
Back to top
View user's profile
3R22R
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 22, 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Ste-Agathe des Monts QC
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Gun tube is to short, turret can't make its mind if it is a Merkava
or a Centurion (stotage bins) good thing they used a piece of crap
like a T-55, anything would have been a waste.
At least the drivers hatch is in the right location.

_________________
Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

- Joe_D

The press will believe anything if they want to Laughing

Joe D



The operative term there being "if they want to". Or perhaps in some cases, more accurately, "if they want you to".

Not that they'd have an agenda or anything...
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Guys!

I received this link from Costas in Greece which has some photos of that tank before it was placed in a hole.

www.militaryphotos.net...p?t=116153

Enjoy, sorry for the very late post on this subject.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Vizmod for propaganda purposes to be posted on the internet. How utterly brilliant! Unschooled viewers 'know' it must be true, and the legend lives in their subconscience. Images to be reactivated for a purpose none of us can begin to understand.

There is a series of books by H. John Poole (Posterity Press.org) that uses verifiable open source intelligence to paint a very thorough picture of Hezbollah, Iraq, Afghanistan and the terrorists' trail. Hezbollah are learning and winning a style of warfare that 95% of this forum's readers are unequiped to understand, never mind win. The average English speaker expects one set of warlike behaviours based on our culture and history; these guys have evolved small unit and total war to an entirely higher plane. They know conventional warfare is not their strong suit, so why practise bleeding when the enemy has another weakness? I found Poole's books at the PX in Afghanistan and every shipment of every title was sold out within days.

Poole could use a ruthless editor who'd cut down half of his repetitious rambles and small-loop logic. Every so often there are unnecessary religious belief statements that have no place in serious-minded writing. But on the whole he has interesting and pointed assertions that need to be discussed.
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Merkava? Not!!!!

Maple Leaf Said:

Unschooled viewers 'know' it must be true, and the legend lives in their subconscience. Images to be reactivated for a purpose none of us can begin to understand.


The Unschooled including the local population. It's not just Hezbollah but also all these other organizations that have copied/ learned from their examples, many being taught by the same who mentored/ taught them. Being formerly involved with the whole Hearts and Minds,,,, sorry wrong conflict,,,,,, Trust and Confidence type operation it would absolutely disgust me that what were well known lies were taken as fact. Bottom line, if the story came from Al Jazeera or the local leader/ cleric / news, it must be true. Anything western was automatically discounted as a lie. The scarier part is that in their zeal (or to meet their agenda) to come across as fair, the Western media will publish a lot of this absolute garbage, lending credence to the lies. This plays right into the hands of Hezbolla and their ilk. A bonus is when they convince people in the US and other Western Nations who then become darlings of the media in their mis-guided anti-war crusade who adopt the mentality of "If it's military, it's wrong" but through the same mouth say they "Support the troops" .

Best way to end war is have an absolute winner. Problem is deciding who you want to win Confused .


Now I yield the floor

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum