±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 696
Total: 696
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: News
02: Community Forums
03: Downloads
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Home
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Home
28: Photo Gallery
29: Home
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Downloads
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: CPGlang
38: CPGlang
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Home
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Photo Gallery
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: CPGlang
58: Photo Gallery
59: News Archive
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: CPGlang
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Photo Gallery
72: Downloads
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Your Account
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Member Screenshots
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Downloads
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Photo Gallery
110: News
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Home
116: Home
117: CPGlang
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Downloads
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Home
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: CPGlang
145: CPGlang
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Downloads
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Your Account
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: News
177: Photo Gallery
178: Your Account
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Your Account
187: Downloads
188: Photo Gallery
189: CPGlang
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: CPGlang
202: News
203: CPGlang
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Your Account
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Statistics
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Photo Gallery
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Photo Gallery
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Photo Gallery
258: Photo Gallery
259: Home
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Photo Gallery
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Photo Gallery
269: Photo Gallery
270: Home
271: Downloads
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Home
282: Home
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Downloads
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: CPGlang
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Downloads
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Community Forums
321: CPGlang
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: CPGlang
325: Home
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Photo Gallery
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Your Account
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Tell a Friend
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Photo Gallery
352: Your Account
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: News Archive
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Photo Gallery
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Photo Gallery
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Statistics
391: Downloads
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: CPGlang
408: Downloads
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Member Screenshots
413: Community Forums
414: Member Screenshots
415: Photo Gallery
416: Member Screenshots
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Downloads
435: Downloads
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: CPGlang
441: Community Forums
442: Downloads
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Member Screenshots
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Photo Gallery
471: Photo Gallery
472: Photo Gallery
473: Photo Gallery
474: Photo Gallery
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Member Screenshots
480: Your Account
481: Photo Gallery
482: Photo Gallery
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Photo Gallery
488: CPGlang
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Your Account
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Photo Gallery
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Member Screenshots
511: Community Forums
512: Home
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Home
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Home
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Member Screenshots
541: Photo Gallery
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Photo Gallery
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Home
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Your Account
561: Your Account
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Home
565: News
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Home
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: News
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Home
584: Downloads
585: Downloads
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Downloads
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Downloads
592: Community Forums
593: Statistics
594: Home
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Your Account
603: Your Account
604: Community Forums
605: Member Screenshots
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Photo Gallery
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Photo Gallery
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Your Account
626: Downloads
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Downloads
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Downloads
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: Home
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Downloads
641: Community Forums
642: Downloads
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Downloads
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Photo Gallery
651: Home
652: Downloads
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Home
656: Home
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: CPGlang
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Photo Gallery
679: Home
680: Community Forums
681: Member Screenshots
682: Photo Gallery
683: Photo Gallery
684: Photo Gallery
685: Community Forums
686: Member Screenshots
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Statistics
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Member Screenshots
696: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
New Visit to a familiar Sherman...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:01 am
Post subject: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Funny how you tank things forgranted just becuase they are close. The M4A3E8 in front of the Nebraska National Guard Museum in Lincoln Ne is an example. I have been on it multiple times over the years and have taken many photos, but today I found stuff I hadn't seen before. Maybe it was the new glasses?

First, the old girl does have a factory number on the right hand upper glacis. Unfortunately it's been painted over so many times that you can only really be sure of the "1" .

Gary B.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Another detail - this tank is not an original HVSS! I had looked at the front HVSS bogie brackets and they have bolts down the sides, but the top is welded on, then I looked at the #2 and #3 brackets and guess what - welded on! Here is the right front bracket.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

here is the left #2 bracket. Note the bolt holes are on the bracket, but the bracket is welded in place.
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:32 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Here is a shot of the welded on idler bracket on the tank's right side
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Here are the casting numbers on the top front of the turret - these are the only cast on marks on that turret
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:35 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

These are the numbers cast on the drivers hatch casting on top of the hull - these are the only casting numbers I could find on the hull.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Gary

Neat catch.

If you have the SN off of the rear tow eyelets I'll bet 'someone' might be able to determine if the tank was a returned combat veteran, rebuilt in the late 40's/50's.

Too bad you can't get inside to see if data plate is present....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Kurt Laughlin once asked about weld scars on the rear (possibly indicating spare track brackets from a VVSS hull). I thought there were not. Today it occurred to me that the pitting on the left of the rear plate is suspiciously in two straight lines. I didn't they were weld scars, but perhaps these are the remains of ground-off weldments???
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

- Dontos
Neat catch. If you have the SN off of the rear tow eyelets I'll bet 'someone' might be able to determine if the tank was a returned combat veteran, rebuilt in the late 40's/50's. Too bad you can't get inside to see if data plate is present.... Regards
Don


I agree. The towing lugs are covered in paint, etc. I would have to get permission to scratch off the paint. Unfortuantely, the blasted ArNG gave it a GI paint job of CARC green. EGAD! I'd probably have to use a blow torch to burn that stuff off.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

For trivia buffs, here is a shot of a mediocre job of welding up the opening for a 2" smoke mortar.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Ballpeen hammer & Sandpaper will do the trick.....

CARC is some nasty stuff, don't torch it.....

The easier solution is to attempt to gain official (or unofficial...he he he) access. Even if the data plate is not present, the SN will be stamped in the hull 'behind' the data plate on the drivers compartment left side sponson.

Besides, there might be other data plates present to give some dated references on the main gun mount, and then theres the stamped info in the breech and gun tube....

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Hi Folks!

- binder001

Here is a shot of the welded on idler bracket on the tank's right side


Notice the cut in the edge of the hull to the left of the mount.

Over on Missing Lynx those cuts came up. Here is what was posted over there:

If it was a clean cut, the hull was build at the factory for the E8 system.
If the cut was done with a cutting torch, then is was a post factory conversion.

The cut provides clearance to remove the inter road wheels without removing the bogie.

Not an origanal E8?

I am confuzed by the Sherman once again!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Don't know where the photo went, but it is the third one down from the top.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:18 am
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

- Roy_A_Lingle


Notice the cut in the edge of the hull to the left of the mount.

Over on Missing Lynx those cuts came up. Here is what was posted over there:

If it was a clean cut, the hull was build at the factory for the E8 system.
If the cut was done with a cutting torch, then is was a post factory conversion.

The cut provides clearance to remove the inter road wheels without removing the bogie.

Not an origanal E8?

I am confuzed by the Sherman once again!
Sgt, Scouts out!

Don't know where the photo went, but it is the third one down from the top.


That rule of thumb is mostly correct, but not completely. There are converted tanks with clean hull cuts. The definitive feature is how the bogies, idler brackets, and return roller brackets were attached. If they use plug welds and have a weld all around their perimeter, it is a VVSS tank converted to HVSS. If the brackets use bolts in all locations, the tank was built as HVSS.

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

So this tank, which I assumed for years to be "hum drum" was in fact a VVSS M4A3 that was depot converted to HVSS? Funny how you can still learn new things about "old friends".

Does the presence of a factory number on the glacis give a hint as to the factory?

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: New Visit to a familiar Sherman...

Hi Gary:

Yup, ex-VVSS. The scars on the rear plate are where the VVSS track block holders were attached:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age37.html

Without the serial though, you can't tell if it originally was a 75mm, 76mm, or 105mm tank.

I can't see exactly where than number comes from but most likely not. On large hatch M4A3s there are two key features that tell the factory:

1. Notch by differential bolt strip (shape of the weld filler)

On Fisher tanks it is rectangular, indicating the bolt strip was finish machined using a pain milling cutter:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age23.html

Chrysler apparently used an end mill, leaving a D-shaped notch and filler:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age20.html

2. Hull side stampings

Fisher put their build or sequence numbers on the left front corner:

the.shadock.free.fr/Ta...age44.html

While Chrysler put theirs on the right side edge of the glacis plate itself, as seen on page 11 of my guide:

www.scribd.com/doc/194...-Locations

If you are willing to revisit some more of your "old friends", my offer of a paying for a tank of gas to help out still holds!

KL


Last edited by Kurt_Laughlin on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum