±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 736
Total: 736
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Downloads
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Downloads
19: Downloads
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Your Account
25: Community Forums
26: News
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: News
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Member Screenshots
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: News Archive
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Downloads
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Member Screenshots
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Your Account
69: Community Forums
70: CPGlang
71: Downloads
72: Member Screenshots
73: Home
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: News Archive
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Downloads
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: CPGlang
95: Community Forums
96: Your Account
97: Photo Gallery
98: Downloads
99: Community Forums
100: Member Screenshots
101: Downloads
102: Member Screenshots
103: Home
104: Member Screenshots
105: Member Screenshots
106: Downloads
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: News Archive
117: Community Forums
118: Downloads
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: CPGlang
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: CPGlang
136: Your Account
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Community Forums
160: Photo Gallery
161: Search
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Downloads
171: News
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Your Account
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Downloads
180: Community Forums
181: Downloads
182: Downloads
183: Community Forums
184: Downloads
185: Community Forums
186: Downloads
187: Downloads
188: CPGlang
189: Your Account
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Statistics
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Downloads
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Downloads
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Statistics
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Your Account
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Downloads
222: Home
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Downloads
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Downloads
232: Photo Gallery
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Downloads
245: Member Screenshots
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Community Forums
251: Downloads
252: Community Forums
253: Downloads
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Photo Gallery
257: Downloads
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Your Account
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Downloads
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: News
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Your Account
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Downloads
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Downloads
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Downloads
294: Community Forums
295: CPGlang
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Downloads
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Downloads
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Downloads
327: Downloads
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Downloads
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Your Account
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Your Account
353: Community Forums
354: Downloads
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: CPGlang
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Downloads
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: News
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Member Screenshots
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Downloads
387: Community Forums
388: Member Screenshots
389: Downloads
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Your Account
402: Your Account
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: News Archive
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Member Screenshots
411: CPGlang
412: News
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Photo Gallery
420: Photo Gallery
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Your Account
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: News Archive
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Downloads
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Downloads
439: Community Forums
440: Downloads
441: Home
442: Community Forums
443: CPGlang
444: Community Forums
445: Member Screenshots
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Your Account
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Home
458: Downloads
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: Downloads
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Downloads
478: Community Forums
479: Downloads
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Downloads
483: Photo Gallery
484: Photo Gallery
485: CPGlang
486: Downloads
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Home
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Home
501: Downloads
502: Community Forums
503: CPGlang
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: CPGlang
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Statistics
522: News
523: Downloads
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Downloads
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Photo Gallery
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Downloads
540: Community Forums
541: Photo Gallery
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Member Screenshots
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Downloads
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Member Screenshots
560: Photo Gallery
561: Downloads
562: Photo Gallery
563: News Archive
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Your Account
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Downloads
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Community Forums
577: Downloads
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Home
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Photo Gallery
588: Photo Gallery
589: Photo Gallery
590: Photo Gallery
591: Downloads
592: Downloads
593: Community Forums
594: Home
595: Community Forums
596: Home
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Your Account
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Home
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Downloads
610: CPGlang
611: Community Forums
612: Downloads
613: Downloads
614: Community Forums
615: Statistics
616: Downloads
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Home
622: Community Forums
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: Statistics
626: Community Forums
627: Downloads
628: Home
629: Home
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Home
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Photo Gallery
640: News Archive
641: Home
642: Community Forums
643: Downloads
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Downloads
649: CPGlang
650: Downloads
651: Downloads
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Home
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Photo Gallery
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: News
673: Photo Gallery
674: Community Forums
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Downloads
681: Downloads
682: Community Forums
683: Photo Gallery
684: Downloads
685: Photo Gallery
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Photo Gallery
689: Community Forums
690: Photo Gallery
691: Photo Gallery
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Downloads
695: Downloads
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Statistics
702: Community Forums
703: Statistics
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Member Screenshots
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Downloads
715: Community Forums
716: Downloads
717: Downloads
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Your Account
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Photo Gallery
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Home
729: Downloads
730: Photo Gallery
731: Home
732: Community Forums
733: Downloads
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Hey Roy!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

'Hi Mike, I always wondered why it never made it to the troops as well.'

Think back to those times. Vietnam was sucking all the funds that the Army could get. As that drew down the budget was cut in the anti-military feeling of the time. Then came the carter years of 'belt tightening'

Weapons development programs were all seen as wasteful by the media and there was no support for anything military. The army had to make very hard decisions about what programs it wanted to keep on life support so that they could be revived later. Research for what became the Abrahms and Bradley programs got some funds as did the Attack Helicopter that became Apache and teh lift helicpter that became Blackhawk. Some funds went into Air Defense systems (Patriot and Divads) but lots of promising programs were killed off.

Scary thing is I think I see it happening again

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:38 am
Post subject: Re: Scout vehicles

Hi Folks!

To Recon 4

I agree with you about the Bradley being to big for a Scout vehicle. When I was running M114 (LINGLES) through the forests of Germany, I could get through places only a M151 Jeep could follow. When we upgraded to M113s, that made it harder to get away from other infantry carriers, but it was still easy to find cover and escape from tank units. When I first read in Armor Magazine that the Bradley was going to be used as a Scout vehicle I was shocked. Then I saw a suggested load plan which encluded a motorcycle. That had me thinking that it would be OK. Two scouts working on motorcycles would make up for the size and noise level of a 30+ ton AFV. Your comments about gunnery doesn't surpise me. There is an old saying that goes something like, 'if it looks like a tank, someone will use it like a tank'. The Brads with that 25mm chain gun and the TOW AT system was a setup for going over board into tank gunney type training. I left the scouting field before the Bradleys arrived, but have always tried to keep up with what was going on. Not fielding the motocycle was another one of those cost cutting events that destoryed a lot of the scouting functions of the Bradley. I think the Army should have went ahead and fielded the M800(T). Dropping the M800 ARSV has came back to bit the Army in 6 o'clock position. Sad

To David,
The Red X seams to be related to the Boss's computer. When lurking at home, I can see the photo. Nice looking vehicle. Confused

To Dontos,
Additional personnel...During my time, the scout TOE for a M114 was three people. During my four years in Germany working with a M-TOE, the four squad leader vehicles and the platoon leader only had two people assigned. So in some ways it would be better to have a four man vehicle with four duty positions so headquarters can not take slots away to save on manning. I don't know. I guess it is possible that if the Army had fielded the M800(T) ARSV that a M-TOE would have still been used and we would have seen vehicles running around with only two crewmen. Neutral

To Neil,
I agree with Neil that if the M800(T) had been fielded, it would still be around with some upgrades. Possible a turret right off the Bradley. Comment set of parts and S4/G4 requirments. Razz

Neil quoted a section from Hunnicutt's Bradley book. For the longest time, I understood the comments about "lateral instability and directional control" in reference to the tracked M800. Sometime back while reading that again, I got the impression that the sentence layout was a bit hard to following and the comments were talking about the wheeled XM800W. I request those who have Hunnicutt's book to take another look at that paragraft.

If the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance, how could it have a lateral instability and directional control problems? If it was superior to the M113A1, then the M113s should have had a greater lateral instability and directional control problems.

Does anyone else see what I talking about or am I just lost in the woods?

My 2 cents, sorry for the late follow up folks.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Scout vehicles

- Roy_A_Lingle


To Dontos,
Additional personnel...During my time, the scout TOE for a M114 was three people. During my four years in Germany working with a M-TOE, the four squad leader vehicles and the platoon leader only had two people assigned. So in some ways it would be better to have a four man vehicle with four duty positions so headquarters can not take slots away to save on manning. I don't know. I guess it is possible that if the Army had fielded the M800(T) ARSV that a M-TOE would have still been used and we would have seen vehicles running around with only two crewmen.


Roy

Perhaps I misspoke. Having been in and around the 'Lingle', I assumed a similiar MTOE as a Bradley Scout platoon. Thus mounting more than the crew to enable vehicle functionability and additional dismounted scout activities. Unfortunately, it made sense to me that way.

The Luchs is a small tank. It allows barely enough room for the crew. The M114 is more adapt at facilitating additional personnel, hence the benefit of the M114 in comparison to the Luchs.

The XM800W has no room for attitional crew but would have been a good vehicle for the job (Recon), as I have seen. The XM800T is just a mini Bradley ( 'Bradley-ette?' ) and I'm not sure dismounts would have worked with it either.

I think the commonality of chassis was the intent with the IFV / CFV concept.

Thanks for the clarification,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- recon4ww2

Nope, scouts definately got screwed in the late 70s/early 80s by the decision to cancel ARSV and merge the requirement with the emerging MICV program that lead to the Bradley. Its probably a good IFV, but its "scouting in a winnebago."

IMO, the XM800T would have made a good scout vehicle and would probably still be in service today - upgraded with a second gen FLIR, etc. I think the XM800s often get a bad rap. Yet note the following from Hunnicutt's Bradley (page 244):

"In comparing the two XM800 vehicles with the baseline M113A1, the test report concluded that the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance as an ARSV. The XM800W performed well on roads and its quiet operation and high road speed were goals to be achieved for future scout vehicles. However, its limited cross country capability and safety hazards associated with lateral instability and directional control made it less effective than the M113A1."

XM800T



Gotta love the plaque: "Armor will achieve this ground mobility [ie the scout role] by organization, training, mission and a state of mind."



XM800W



Neil


Just gotta' get my Armor Board plug in here...(I always loved that line from Hunnicutt's "Bradley").


Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Roy,
I read that line from "Bradley" as meaning the XM800T had superior performance (in all regimes, including firepower) to the other two. The M113 A1 (note the comparison is to an A1) was superior to the XM800 wheeled version because the wheeled version was squirrely in the handling department.

I think the M113 would have faired MUCH better had the comparison been with not just an M113A2, but one up-engined to the Sheridan powerplant, which was just the same DD engine with a turbo, basically. Note in the other thread here from Ft. Irwin what is going into the OSV's....essentially that. More "Ooomph"....and add a power turret and suitable gun and the 113 starts looking pretty darn good.

BTW, Jeff and I watched an M113 OSV running on the same ground as I drove the halftrack on....it obviously had the blown engine and it could really scoot! Ran like a Sheridan on Nitrous....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: M114/Bradley TOEs

Hi Don! Hi Folks!

"Perhaps I misspoke. Having been in and around the 'Lingle', I assumed a similiar MTOE as a Bradley Scout platoon. Thus mounting more than the crew to enable vehicle functionability and additional dismounted scout activities. Unfortunately, it made sense to me that way."

Not completely Don. From what I remember, the Bradley Cav Platoons had the same number of troops as the older M114/M113 platoons did. The big difference was the older platoons had ten (10) vehicles vis only six (6) vehicles in a CFV unit.

If you look up the BRT TOE which was using Hummers, it had the same number of vehicles and troops as the older M114/M113 battalion scout platoons.

I was headed home from CQ on a Saturday morining at Hunter Liggett MR back in the early 1970s. A team from FMC had one of the XM800Ts running around on one of the firing ranges. I knew what it was as soon as I saw it and pulled over and stopped. I walked over to two civilains and talked with them for a few minutes. They were testing a stabiliser system with live ammo. That vehicle had a M139 auto cannon mounted on it and boy was I impressed! The vehicle was running around, turning, stopping, chargeing off and during all that the turret remained on target and the they were just cutting it apart! I got a chance to walk around it and get a good look at it. I wasn't brave enough to ask if I could climb up and look inside. I wished them luck at winning the ARSV contest. Man, I wished I had a camera with me.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:14 am
Post subject: Re: Scout vehicles

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!


Neil quoted a section from Hunnicutt's Bradley book. For the longest time, I understood the comments about "lateral instability and directional control" in reference to the tracked M800. Sometime back while reading that again, I got the impression that the sentence layout was a bit hard to following and the comments were talking about the wheeled XM800W. I request those who have Hunnicutt's book to take another look at that paragraft.

If the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance, how could it have a lateral instability and directional control problems? If it was superior to the M113A1, then the M113s should have had a greater lateral instability and directional control problems.


I understand the lateral instability bit to refer to the XM800W, not the T. Especially considering that the 800T had superior cross-country mobility. Believe the lateral instability & safety issues were due to the W's articulated body.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Status for the XM800s

Hi David! Hi Folks!

Found some status for both 800 vehicles in an old 1976 copy of Jane's World Armoured Fighting Vehicles.

Basic Data...........Tracked...........Wheeled
Crew........................both 3
Weight Loaded......8.618 kg..........7.697 kg
Weight empty.......7.980 kg..........not listed
Length.................4.673 m............4.914 m
Width.................. 3.438 m............2.438 m
Height..................2.399 m............2.489 m over top of weapons
Height..................1.663 m............not listed top of the hull
Ground Clearance..... both .406 m
Track...................1.955m..............1.981m (my note: don't understand this one.)
Track Width..........0.482m
Wheelbase.....................................3.682 m
Lenght of track on ground..2.743m
Ground Pressure.....32 kg/cm2..........43 kg/cm2
Maxium Road Speed 88.5 km/hr........104.6 km/hr
Max Reverse speed..40.23 km/hr.......not listed (my note: I think these is very important to scouts)
Max speed in water...7.2 km/hr...........8 km/hr
Acceleration 0-48 km/hr...10 seconds....8 seconds
Range......................both 725 km
Fuel..........................397 liters.............341 liters
Fording......................both amphibious
Gradient....................both 60%
Side Slope.................both 60%
Vertical Obstacle........0.762 m................0.914 m
Trench.......................1.828 m...............not listed
Engine.......................GM 6V53 AT..........GM 6V53T (my note: wonder what the 'A' stands for in the tracked engine? My guess is the 'T' in both engines stands for tubocharger)
Engine type.................both diesel
Engine HP/RPM.............280/2,800............300/2,100
Armament...................both 1x20 mm cannon (My note: the first layout mounted the M139 20mm auto cannon, same as on the M114A2 Lingle) At that time the Army was running the Brushmaster program to pick a new auto cannon. Both 800s had room to mount the any of the four systems that where being looked at.)
....................................both 1x7.62 mm MG (My note: M-60Ds)
Ammo...........................both 20mmx500 rounds and 7.62mmx2,000 rounds
.....................................Rear hatch to pull power pack out (like the M8 AGS)

David, sorry I took so long, this is another one of those threads that I had to wait until I cleared up home PC problems.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Neil_Baumgardner


XM800T



Neil


Hey Neil! Is this your photo sir?

If not Neil's, I would like to know who's took it. I would like to use it as the back ground on my home PC.

?
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Roy

I have similiar shots...U want it?

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:47 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hey Roy, thanks very much for the statistics! Smile Smile Smile Now I can make a better comparison between the XM800T and the Lynx. My bet is that physically they are very close (except of course in the electronics department).

Thanks again, well worth waiting for!

Best Regards,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Roy_A_Lingle


Hey Neil! Is this your photo sir?



That is indeed my picture feel free to use it. In fact, I'd hesitate to say I dont think you really need to get the owner's permission to just use it for your PC's background. But if you were going to post on the web somewhere, then thats different - I'd ask you to give me credit. My appreciated nonetheless.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Dontos
Roy

I have similiar shots...U want it?


Hi Don!

Photos received! Thank you SIR!

I am always looking for photos of that vehicle. Someday I hope to try and scratch build a M800(T) with a Bradley turret.

Hey everyone, if you don't already know, check out Mister Bradford's AFV front page, He has added a link to Don's site on the Ontos.

Thanks again Don,
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Roy_A_Lingle


Hey Neil! Is this your photo sir?



That is indeed my picture feel free to use it. In fact, I'd hesitate to say I dont think you really need to get the owner's permission to just use it for your PC's background. But if you were going to post on the web somewhere, then thats different - I'd ask you to give me credit. My appreciated nonetheless.

Neil


I wasn't sure either, but though it would be better to ask just in case. Thank you Sir!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hey everyone, if you don't already know, check out Mister Bradford's AFV front page, He has added a link to Don's site on the Ontos.
I am honored to be included in AFV links.

Thanks George!!

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum