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First images of the Aussie Abrams
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Doug_Kibbey
- Roy_A_Lingle

Thanks Dong!



"Dong"?!....have some of those old movies I did under my stage name when I was young turn up on the internet? Shocked (or have you been into my stash of VN piasters....?)



Sorry Doug!
I have been awake since 14:30 MST yesterday and it is passed my bed time, but I am having too much fun running my mouth (fingers)!


Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- buglerbilly



Regards,

BUG


Hey Folks!

That's a brand new rebuild right? Confused

Are those oil leak stains under that gun mantel?

Is that normal for a M1A1? Sad Sad Sad Sad

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Jinx
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Australia is spending billions of $$$$$ on heavy battle tanks, large transport aircraft, Joint Strike Aircraft, JASSM cruise missiles, AEGIS-equipped destroyers, and two 20,000+ tonne amphibious assault vehicles.

Ummmm.....should the rest of us be worried?


(I think we are safe up here in Canada, at least. It is cold here eight months of the year, and Australians aren't used to that.)
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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

My 2¢ on the Shinseki/Beret issue (my gut feel and not based on any truth): He grew up in the old black beret Armor Corps and I think may have felt as Don does about losing it to the Rangers. I think he probably thought to himself, "If I'm ever king, I'm gonna get that beret back." Well, he became the CSA, and got that beret away from the Rangers. Just MHO.

I served as a company commander under both Clark and Shinseki (yeah rode the Clark "box of death" as a company commander at NTC too). Shinseki made us have a DRB with a tank company team(-) that could be wheels up within 24 hours. This team was basically a tank platoon, Brad platoon, M88, fueler and ammo HEMTT and some wheeled vehicles (M998, supply/PLL truck). The only weak link was the reliance on the USAF to have enough C-5s ready to move the stuff. This team was follow-on support to airborne forces that would already be securing the airfield.

Getting the divisions to the fight in 30 days was his reasoning for wanting more of those Aussie-made Theater Support Vessels (TSV) catamaran-looking fast sealift ships, not for getting rid of heavy divisions and making medium weight Stryker divisions instead. There aren't enough C-5s in the USAF to fly one heavy or medium division into theater in total in 30 days.

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hey Folks!

That's a brand new rebuild right? Confused

Are those oil leak stains under that gun mantel?

Is that normal for a M1A1? Sad Sad Sad Sad

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile
AIM=Abrams Integrated Management program, fancy talk for rebuild. All M1A1 and M1A2SEP are rebuilds now. Non-SEP M1A2s were the last new production Abrams tanks off the line, and they are being rebuilt to SEP standards.

Don't see any oil stains under the mantlet, can you point them out?

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:54 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Sabot
My 2¢ on the Shinseki/Beret issue (my gut feel and not based on any truth): He grew up in the old black beret Armor Corps and I think may have felt as Don does about losing it to the Rangers. I think he probably thought to himself, "If I'm ever king, I'm gonna get that beret back." Well, he became the CSA, and got that beret away from the Rangers. Just MHO.



He wasn't the first to miss it, but I didn't think that would have been part of his experience..live and learn.

In 1973 when Donn Starry succeeded William Desobry (see: Team Desobry of Bastogne fame...tough SOB) as Installation CO of Ft. Knox, he also instituted the wearing of the black beret for armor troops at Knox, the limit of his realm. I still have mine, but resisted wearing it (which you could kinda' get away with as so many troops at Knox weren't "armor", strictly speaking) because it was WAY less practical, having no bill (no rain/sun protection). Besides, I had my patrol cap (issue baseball caps were widely discarded) nicely broken in and I was ETS'ing in a couple of months, so apart from our weekly formation, I shined it on.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Sabot

Don't see any oil stains under the mantlet, can you point them out?


Yep, just shadows and grooves for me here too, I think Roy was up so late his eyes were playin' tricks on him....
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:33 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

As to Abrams modifications, I seem to recall reading that the Abrams had been offered to Turkey but strictly as-is with absolutely no extras or modifications. Australia may have got a similar deal. If the Aussies want their Abrams's to be different from the U.S. they'll probably have to wait til they're all delivered then take a wrench to them themsleves
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:02 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Hello again folks,
Leak, What leak, That's usually what you get from the FSB guys when it comes to the seals. But I agree with Rob, no leak. If I was home I'd post a REAL leak. There's a little more to AIM's than just rebuild, I kinda equate it to when the Army upgraded select M60A1's to RISE standard. They should have the Sidecar system, Newer TNB, TC control panel, FCS Cannister round upgrade, Drivers hatch interlock, pulse jet system, and other stuff. The AIM program just applies all the upgrades with a ground up rebuild. The old M1A1's did have some of these applied but it depended where they were at. I agree with Dontos, I would prefer the M1A1 AIM over any M1A2. Mostly because it's a Tank and not an armoured computer. I wish they'd put the CITV on an A1 along with the newer FLIR gunner's sight. All that other junk can go. If the Aussies are smart they'll junk that Turbine and go diesel. There are plenty of fine engines out there that would perform just as well without the fuel consumption. Then you wouldn't need an APU. Horsepower is useless unless you can use it. My opinion, I'm sure I'll hear otherwise.

Bob, Sorry, the Armor question can't be answered. I'm sure it's been put out on the internet though. I prefer talking M60's, nothing for the most part is sensitive with them.

Joe_D
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Sabot
- Roy_A_Lingle
Hey Folks!

Are those oil leak stains under that gun mantel?

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile


Don't see any oil stains under the mantlet, can you point them out?


The three dark lines (?) on that desert paint job. Shocked
Two along the bottom and one on the side.

I guess if no else is calling them oil stains, they are shadows?

I guess you Tankers have confuzed this old scout again! Sad
I haven't seen a real Abrams sense the 3rd ACR moved from Ft. Bliss up to Ft. Carson. But the 4th BCT of the 1st CD is bring them back!


Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Roy

In 98, while attending Battle Staff course (yeah,...I was a STAFF PUKE!!) I went walking around and in one of the Motor Pools near the 'new' PX ( actually a new outdoor center store), there was a Battalion worth of M1A1's. They were 'leave behinds' from 3rd ACR deactivation as I was told.

I assume thats all gone now.

That was the last time I was in El Paso, for any length of time.

Ah the memories of El Paso are flooding in....I won't bore ya'll.

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:57 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

I see shadows, 2 along the gun are where the gun goes through the mantlet. The big strip along the left is the GAS port (gunner's aux sight--think 105D to the old tankers). No oil in the area of the mantlet any way.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Roy_A_Lingle
[
I guess if no else is calling them oil stains, they are shadows?

I guess you Tankers have confuzed this old scout again! Sad

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile


Shadows, Hoss....Rob described it pretty well...

Now, READY......

SQUINT!



....as you were.....
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buglerbilly
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Older announcement related to these tanks...........they have DU armor replaced/deleted plus the Australian Army will not use DU APFSDS but a German Rheinmetall Tungsten round instead...............

First Five Australian M1A1 Abrams Integrated Management Tanks Delivered
General Dynamics
Tue, 21 Feb 2006, 15:07


LIMA, Ohio: During a ceremony at the Joint Systems Manufacturing Center - Lima, General Dynamics Land Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics, today delivered the first five of 59 M1A1 Abrams Integrated Management (AIM) tanks to the Commonwealth of Australia. Awarded in November 2005, this foreign military sales contract is valued at $70 million. The M1A1 AIM tanks will replace the Australian Land Forces' aging Leopard main battle tanks.

The Abrams M1A1 AIM tanks are survivable and affordable vehicles with excellent potential for network-centric warfare that will provide Australian Forces with increased connectivity, mobility and firepower. Additionally, the M1A1 AIM provides a cost-efficient armor solution as it incurs low operational and support costs, and reports high operational readiness rates. Under this contract, M1A1 Abrams tanks from the U.S. Army inventory are completely disassembled, overhauled and refurbished to like-new "zero-kilometer, zero- hour" condition.

General Dynamics Land Systems Senior Vice President for Production, Delivery and Support Richard O. Gillette told ceremony attendees the process for the Australian tanks began last year when 59 M1A1 Abrams were inducted into General Dynamics Land Systems' partner facility, the Anniston Army Depot. "There, the vehicles were stripped of their component parts," Gillette said. "The process comes full circle here at Lima, where upgrades and technology enhancements are completed. Today's ceremony celebrates the first major deliveries under Australia's Foreign Military Sales program with the United States. This is a major achievement."

Brigadier Damian Roche, the Australian Army Military Attache to the United States, represented the Commonwealth of Australia. General Dynamics Land Systems and Australian vehicle crews participated in a symbolic vehicle log book presentation to signify the transfer of the tank from the contractor to the Australian government. Additionally, General Dynamics Land Systems, U.S. Army Foreign Military Sales program managers and Roche signed the first vehicle's official certificate of acceptance.

The Australian M1A1 AIM tank has a cruising range of up to 480 kilometers, the ability to reach speeds of 66 kph on-road (41 mph) and up to 48 kph off- road (30 mph), while carrying four crewmen and ammunition. The primary weapon is a 120mm smooth-bore cannon; it is also equipped with a 50-caliber machine gun for the tank commander and two additional 7.62mm machine guns. The Abrams can fire an advanced kinetic energy tungsten penetrator round against vehicles and a multipurpose round for infantry support.

The Abrams' survivability is enhanced through its nuclear, biological and chemical protection system, crew compartmentalization from munitions and armored blow-off panels, which allow stowed munitions to vent to the atmosphere if detonated.

The 59 M1A1 AIM tanks will be shipped to Australian Land Forces in two increments: June and December 2006. The tanks are part of a large worldwide fleet with known, stable operating costs, and are expected to be in service beyond 2020.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Dontos
Roy

In 98, while attending Battle Staff course (yeah,...I was a STAFF PUKE!!) I went walking around and in one of the Motor Pools near the 'new' PX ( actually a new outdoor center store), there was a Battalion worth of M1A1's. They were 'leave behinds' from 3rd ACR deactivation as I was told.

I assume thats all gone now.

That was the last time I was in El Paso, for any length of time.

Ah the memories of El Paso are flooding in....I won't bore ya'll.


Hi Dontos! Hi Folks!

That has been a bit. As for STAFF PUKE, I did a year in a battalion S2 shop myself. Interesting time.

3rd ACR deactivation? Surprised No they did a PCS. Sad That only left a few Bradley Linebackers over in the AIT motor pool to look from time to time. Sad

About a month or two before the Regiment started moving out to Ft. Carson, they received a large number of new Abrams tanks. New as in they looked new. My guess is they were rebuilds with fresh paint. The old vehicles set in a holding area next to the base heavy repair shops for a few years. At first I think there was something like 100+ worn out and ran down Abrams in that yard. Then they slowly starting disappearing. I learned from an article in the base newspaper that the base shops have been overhauling those vehicles along with a number of M109s that had been shipped to Ft. Bliss for rebuild. The yards around the base shops now days are filled with wheeled vehicles of all types. Many of them have been there for months.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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