±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 625
Total: 625
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Home
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Member Screenshots
37: Community Forums
38: Member Screenshots
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Statistics
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Downloads
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: CPGlang
59: Photo Gallery
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: CPGlang
67: Community Forums
68: Your Account
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Home
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Home
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Downloads
87: Photo Gallery
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Statistics
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Downloads
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Downloads
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: CPGlang
133: Photo Gallery
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Member Screenshots
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: News
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Your Account
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: CPGlang
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Statistics
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Photo Gallery
203: Statistics
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Member Screenshots
221: Home
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Downloads
229: Downloads
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Member Screenshots
239: Photo Gallery
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Statistics
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Home
262: Member Screenshots
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Statistics
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: News
272: Statistics
273: Photo Gallery
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Statistics
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Downloads
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Your Account
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Downloads
317: Home
318: Community Forums
319: Home
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Home
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Home
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: CPGlang
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Home
348: Your Account
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Photo Gallery
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Downloads
357: Your Account
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Photo Gallery
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Member Screenshots
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Home
406: Downloads
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: News Archive
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Home
437: Downloads
438: Home
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Your Account
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: News Archive
446: News
447: Downloads
448: Your Account
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Home
459: Community Forums
460: News Archive
461: Home
462: Home
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Community Forums
467: Home
468: Community Forums
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Statistics
481: Home
482: Home
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Downloads
497: Your Account
498: CPGlang
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Downloads
508: Community Forums
509: Downloads
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Downloads
519: Home
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: CPGlang
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Statistics
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Home
552: Downloads
553: Community Forums
554: Downloads
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Home
562: Community Forums
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Home
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Member Screenshots
573: Community Forums
574: Downloads
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Photo Gallery
588: Downloads
589: Downloads
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Member Screenshots
595: Photo Gallery
596: Photo Gallery
597: Photo Gallery
598: CPGlang
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Downloads
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Community Forums
613: Home
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Statistics
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Member Screenshots
622: Community Forums
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: CPGlang

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
off topic Vietnam
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

The comments on chroming reminded me, isn't the current barrel heavier than the initial production barrels?

You look at recent shots out of Iraq and it seems almost everybody's carrying the carbine instead of the long-barrelled M16! Its my impession the two weapons are functionally identical except for the different barrel, stock and any add-on doodads. Am I right, or are there actual differences?
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:51 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- mike_Duplessis
The comments on chroming reminded me, isn't the current barrel heavier than the initial production barrels?

You look at recent shots out of Iraq and it seems almost everybody's carrying the carbine instead of the long-barrelled M16! Its my impession the two weapons are functionally identical except for the different barrel, stock and any add-on doodads. Am I right, or are there actual differences?


We need one of the younger guys to answer this, but are not most M4's also limited to semi-auto and 3-round "burst mode" cycles, or was that only the M-16A2?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Doug,
This is what I know, remember, tankers like me never were issued M16's when we came in, It was M3's and .45's. I carried an M16A1 for gaurd duty at Miessau and also when we gaurded the Abrams complex during the early 80's. Fired it once, seemed very flimsy to me. We had one bend when a soldier let a deuce and a half tire fall on one. I carried an A2 and M4 a few years back and both had the 3 round burst. I used an A4 at Hood while training up, also 3 round burst. A4 handle is removable and is machined with the picatinny type rail so you can mount an ACOG or M68 sight. All have heavy barrels and use a higher grain round (Green tip). I loved my A4. Very accurate. (40 for 40, yeah baby). We didn't get cleaning kits or much CLP for a while so I went about a week without cleaning it good. Just the chamber. Fired blanks and live, Never had a malfunction. Impressed me. I never paid much attention to the brass, but yes, it does have a blue tinge, I didn't know why until now.

Shawn,
The M4 and M16A2 on are all Heavy barrels, the M-4 isn't as accurate because of the shorter barrel. It's also zeroed a little differently. It is prefered because it is a lot easier to get in and out of a vehicle when wearing body armor and all the other goodies. We did have some M16A1's show up in theater late 2002 but they were quickly exchanged for M4's/M16A2's. Couldn't support the A1's with ammo or parts. Same thing happened with the old M60 MG, Though they hung around a little longer than planned, Since parts were it's only hang up.
Roy,
I sure know all about units getting screwed out of training time. Support platoons and FSB platoons usually get the short end of the stick. Usually their ammo allocations for crew serve weapons is given to the line guys for those un-supported live fire exercises. Individual weapons qualification is harder to blow off. Each soldier is allotted a set amount of ammo to zero/group/qualify their weapon. This is tracked monthly and reported up, heaven help a company commander who fails to keep their unit qualified. There is always a range going on. That said, 5 years ago it was not unusual to be running a range and have soldiers show up and not be able to qualify until their 5th or 6th attempt (if at all). These were usually soldiers that found out they had to be there that morning and had no prior marksmanship training, even though they had a memorandum signed saying they did. Made for a very long and frustrating day. It would also be the only time that year they actually fired that weapon. Not the soldiers fault, Leaders. As you said, 507th was at the mercy of their BDE. Somewhere in their chain of command a leader made the decision that maintaining/moving equipment was more important than training combat skills for these soldiers. Not uncommon back then. This war has definately changed how we train the CS/CSS units. Unfortunately it takes a situation like the 507th's to get it fixed.

I am stepping of my soap box now,
Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- Joe_D
Doug,
This is what I know, remember, tankers like me never were issued M16's when we came in, It was M3's and .45's. I carried an M16A1 for gaurd duty at Miessau and also when we gaurded the Abrams complex during the early 80's. Fired it once, seemed very flimsy to me. We had one bend when a soldier let a deuce and a half tire fall on one. I carried an A2 and M4 a few years back and both had the 3 round burst. I used an A4 at Hood while training up, also 3 round burst. A4 handle is removable and is machined with the picatinny type rail so you can mount an ACOG or M68 sight. All have heavy barrels and use a higher grain round (Green tip). I loved my A4. Very accurate. (40 for 40, yeah baby). We didn't get cleaning kits or much CLP for a while so I went about a week without cleaning it good. Just the chamber. Fired blanks and live, Never had a malfunction. Impressed me. I never paid much attention to the brass, but yes, it does have a blue tinge, I didn't know why until now.

Joe D


Hi Joe...
Ahhh, the M3 "greasegun". Yes, I was trained and qualified on that one, too...and I'm sure Roy was as well. Quaint little piece of kit, for the price...and reasonably effective within it's limited range. There were still marked stowage points on the walls of the M60A2 for those things....

In VN, when I finally got down to the 11th ACR, you were issued any weapon of your choice that they had. In my case, I had a personally-owned .45 so I took an M16 for my backup (they wouldn't issue both, anyway).

I once, on an assault in-line into the bush when contact had been established, saw the driver of a Sheridan advancing next to my vehicle actually popping off .45 rounds from his postion in the driver's seat as he steered one-handed into the bush....I'm not sure what that added to the hail of lead already hurtling into the shrubbery, but it seemed to make him feel better... Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- SHAWN


i just bought an AR-15 with the early upper and lower receivers...

shawn


Hey Shawn, Question for you. Does the bore and the chamber look like they have been chromed?

If they are, with current ammo, you shouldn't have to much of a problem if you are going to use it for target shooting.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Hi guys,

I guess I qualify as a current user, even if I don't really fit the definition of "younger guy".

Here's the deal. M16A1 was the model that corrected all the problems of the rushed fielding of the M16 (forked flash suppressor, no forward assist, etc.) The original M16 actually had the chromed bore introduced pretty quickly once the rifle was in service. (All subsequent models of the rifle had/have the chrome bore.) The basic problem was that the rifle was rushed into combat (politics, natch) before all the bugs were worked out. Problems with powder fouling and lack of cleaning kits were among the major problems that the rifle encountered and which were rapidly fixed...but not before the reputation of the weapon was irreversibly tarnished.

The M16A2 was a long-planned, late-funded update to the rifle. The stock was extended about 1" to better fit the modern American physique. The barrel was beefed up for part of it's length to resist heat problems and bending when young indelicate soldiers leaned into it while firing. A finger rest was added to the handgrip, the forward assist button was reshaped, and the sights were replaced with a more adjustable version. There were a few other changes, but the really major one was a change in the rifling from 1 twist in 8" to 1:6. This came as a result of an ammunition change, which came because of the requirements of the new M249 SAW.

(The range/accuracy requirements for the M249 SAW could not be met using existing NATO 5.56mm ammunition. The bullet was too light to carry accurately. So the bullet weight was increased, and the stabilizing spin on the bullet was increased by the rifling change. Standardization of ammunition dictated changing the rifling on the M16s. This is also the reason that the M16A1 is no longer used in combat, as the new ammunition cannot be fired safely through the old rifle. However, the old ammunition CAN be fired through the new model rifle, with some reduction in range and accuracy.)

The M4 is a cut-down version of the M16. I've been told that the type classification is actually for a rifle based on the M16A2, and previous M4-looking weapons were actually modifications using non-official parts within the SOF community.

There is no M16A3, as the delay in the M16A2 being fielded allowed the A3 mods to be applied to the A2.

The M16A4 is the version mentioned by Joe D, which has a detachable carrying handle ("flat-top") with Pic rails on the receiver and handgrips. The M4A1 is the short counterpart of the M16A4, with similar mods. The availability of aftermarket bits and bobs on the internet has led to a diversity of appearance in combat, with soldiers tricking out their weapons to suit their tastes. As long as they don't affect or modify the weapon in a permanent way, such customizing is generally tolerated by commanders...although chrome plating of safety catches and forward assists is frowned on.

The "green tip" bullets that Joe D refers to are literally "green" rounds in the environmental sense. Faced with terrific costs for cleaning up lead contamination at rifle ranges affected by base closures, the Army figured out that not-making-the-problem-worse was a smart idea. So, they developed a bullet made of zinc alloys that isn't an environmental hazard but which duplicates the penetration and ballistic properties of the lead bullets. This ammunition was initially viewed sceptically (as is everything involved with the rifle since the initial problems), but it is now the only bullet available in ball ammunition for both the M16 and the M249. (I used tracer ammo in Iraq (red-orange tip), but I never found out if it is the zinc ammo or if it is still lead.)

Overall, the statistical performance of the rifle and ammunition is hard to argue with, despite anecdotal arguments that persist around the internet. Even the SOF guys use it more often than not, only using heavier weapons in special circumstances. The 9mm pistol bullet doesn't enjoy the same acceptance, and a strong move is afoot to return to the .45 for US pistols (but probably not to the beloved M1911 pistol).


C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
oldtop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

I guess I'm an "ole guy", having landed in Nam in April of 65 (Marines), we didn't see the M16s till late 66 I believe. as for myself being a track-mec/ scout in a Ontos (hi dontos) plt. I kept my M14. The M16 I first saw going into service didn't have chromed bores or chambers. The first problem with the the rifle was there wasn't ANY cleaning equippment, no cleaning rods, bore brushes or lubercants. To help with the problem the troops were given a printed page put out by Colt Fire Arms stating that this was the first "self-cleaning" rifle! Next was the idiotic flash hider (so much for field testing) it was like taking a pitckfork into the woods, everthing jammed into and hung-up in those prongs. Some were along the line they came up with changing to the good ole stand by "Ball powder" because it gave a little more pust to the bullets, as pointed out the gas operating system in the M16 doesn't have an operating piston or rod, the gases vent right into the reciver, the the Ball powder produced far more carbon build-up than the flake type powder. When a round is chambered the extractor catches in the extraction groove, this raises the extractor in the bolt, when the gases vent the carbon begain to build up between the extractor and the bolt, at the same time the carbon was building up in the chamber so it became harder to extracted the spent cartridge case till the extractor slipped off the case extractor groove and left the spent case in the chamber, in the mean time the bolt has gone back and picked up a fresh round and jammed it into the spent case. Now the trooper has a missfire and pulls the charging handle to the rear and the live round falls lose in the reciver because the extractor wasn't gripping the groove on the fresh round...Now you must remove the magzine and shake the lose round out and then run a cleaning rod down the bore to knock the spent case out of the chamber..only one problem, No cleaning rod! And you now have a single shot rifle, beside each dead Marine on hill 881 was a jammed M16...Oh ya, I was on the M16 test program ran by the Marine Corps in 1977.
What made it even sadder was troops didn't at the time know what was wrong with the ammo, they knew it was the ammo but not which was bad and which was good. so there ended up two groups of thought, the blue primer and the red primer, at this time both a red and blue colored primer sealer was being used on the base of the cartridges. Because of this some troops thought the red primer sealer was the bad ammo, at the same time there was "blue primer" is the bad ammo group and the road sides were litered with 5.56mm rounds with both primer colors.
One more thing, at one time 5.56mm NATO was the same cartridge as 223 Rem and most of your AR-15s are chambered for 223 Rem, you can order the AR-15 chambered for 5.56mm NATO or 223Rem, My AR-15 is chambered for 223 Rem and I do not fire 5.56mm NATO in it, there is also a chambering that is for both cartridges. The standard 5.56mm NATO of today produses much higher pressure and should not be fired in a rifle chambered for 223 Rem.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

WELCOME 'OLE TOP'.....!!!

Glad you could make it over.


_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
oldtop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Dontos.....you get that pig up and running yet?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Running? yup.... completed? Close......REAL CLOSE!!

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Hi Old Top!

Good to see you have findly PCS'ed over to the new site.

When you have some time, check out the "Stryker weapons system picture..." item.

Starting about half down is some discussion about moving the M2 HB on the M48 outside of the cupola and why that was done. I'm beting you have some good insight into why the Marines did that.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Cloudy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- oldtop
To help with the problem the troops were given a printed page put out by Colt Fire Arms stating that this was the first "self-cleaning" rifle!


Amazing. This would be an interesting read and a great curio because I don't believe that there is such a thing 40 years later. What an incredibly cheeky thing to claim! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

- Cloudy
- oldtop
To help with the problem the troops were given a printed page put out by Colt Fire Arms stating that this was the first "self-cleaning" rifle!


Amazing. This would be an interesting read and a great curio because I don't believe that there is such a thing 40 years later. What an incredibly cheeky thing to claim! )
After dealing with a 'continuious cleaning oven' a few years back I think even my wife would see through the claim of a 'self cleaning rifle'

Give the troops a printed page. Yea right. I still remember getting backorder receipts instead of long johns, gloves and a field jacket liner my first winter on the flightline. The paper receipts did me a lot of good that winter.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SHAWN
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

hey bob, those receipts were at least softer than the issue t.p.

okay, one of you fellas tell me-- i am not able to link to pics in this quick reply?
well, anyway,

roy, i have pics of the AR15 in a gallery i posted at this site here.
the bore and chamber are chromed. the bolt is a bolt that will work with the forward assist (non technical term-- has the machined slash/rachet marks on the starboard side). it has the early upper and lower receivers, and a birdcage flash suppressor (early f.s. was the 3-prong f.s.) what folks consider the pitch fork for getting tangled in everything!
i believe it has the 1:10 (or is it the 1:12?) twist barrel. oh, i dont think i will have a problem with the rifle, i am not using it under the same conditions as the when the weapon had been introduced.

i will keep looking for more early combat reports for the AR15. i found hal moore's aar from lz x-ray.

interesting to note that many of the problems had been acknowledged and remedies were being made to correct the issues as the rifles were being fielded (1964, 1965). as someone else mentioned, knowledge of malfunctions, etc. haunted the weapon even after the problems were corrected.
many features which would go into the M16A1 were being added to the rifle... if you look at the pics from the 7th cav (1st air cav) when they initially deployed in late 1965, they have the 16's with "mixed" receivers, early lowers, with an upper that has the forward assist...

anyway, ah, i have found this new site to be really nice. once i get in here and start navigating and using this site it is no problem...

shawn
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
oldtop
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: off topic Vietnam

Back in 68 (2nd trip to Nam) I inherited my self-propelled gun Arty Baty's armory, there were stacks of M16s on the floor ( if you put wepons in racks the shell splinter from in-coming would chew them in a heartbeat, we had 2 to 3 M16s a week damaged by shell fire...there wasn't a thing in the Baty area that didn't have a shell fragment hole in it including the Admin clerk's in and out basket..the splinters seemed to seek of sleepingbags so when you went to your hardback after a shelling the air was full of feathers ) . Some M16s had the flashhidders mods (birdcage type) some with the prog type. about mid June we turned all M16s in for M16A1s.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum