±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 748
Total: 748
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Your Account
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Community Forums
31: Your Account
32: Photo Gallery
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Home
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Downloads
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Downloads
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Home
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Downloads
93: Home
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Home
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: CPGlang
137: Photo Gallery
138: CPGlang
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Member Screenshots
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Member Screenshots
183: Community Forums
184: CPGlang
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Community Forums
190: Your Account
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Photo Gallery
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Photo Gallery
212: Downloads
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Photo Gallery
218: Photo Gallery
219: Your Account
220: Downloads
221: Community Forums
222: Downloads
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Your Account
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Downloads
235: Photo Gallery
236: Your Account
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Downloads
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Your Account
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Home
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Downloads
274: Home
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Photo Gallery
293: CPGlang
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Downloads
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Your Account
315: Home
316: Home
317: Member Screenshots
318: Home
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: CPGlang
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: CPGlang
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Member Screenshots
339: Community Forums
340: Member Screenshots
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: Home
344: Statistics
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Photo Gallery
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: CPGlang
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Photo Gallery
363: CPGlang
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Photo Gallery
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Your Account
378: Member Screenshots
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Photo Gallery
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Downloads
391: Downloads
392: Home
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Statistics
401: Community Forums
402: Photo Gallery
403: Downloads
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: News
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Member Screenshots
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: CPGlang
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Downloads
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Downloads
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: Community Forums
438: CPGlang
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Member Screenshots
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Photo Gallery
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Downloads
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Downloads
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Your Account
465: Downloads
466: Photo Gallery
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Community Forums
473: Your Account
474: Community Forums
475: Your Account
476: News Archive
477: CPGlang
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Photo Gallery
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Your Account
516: Photo Gallery
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Photo Gallery
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Community Forums
534: Home
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Member Screenshots
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Photo Gallery
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Photo Gallery
557: Home
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Your Account
566: News
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Photo Gallery
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Member Screenshots
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Your Account
590: Community Forums
591: Search
592: Home
593: Downloads
594: Community Forums
595: Your Account
596: Your Account
597: News
598: Photo Gallery
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: Downloads
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Home
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Photo Gallery
614: Downloads
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Your Account
618: Community Forums
619: Downloads
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Home
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: Community Forums
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Home
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Downloads
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: Photo Gallery
638: Community Forums
639: Downloads
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Photo Gallery
643: News Archive
644: News Archive
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Downloads
651: Photo Gallery
652: Photo Gallery
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Home
657: Your Account
658: Photo Gallery
659: Home
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Home
669: Community Forums
670: Your Account
671: Downloads
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Home
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Community Forums
679: Home
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Your Account
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Photo Gallery
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: CPGlang
692: Community Forums
693: Photo Gallery
694: Community Forums
695: Photo Gallery
696: Home
697: Community Forums
698: Your Account
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Home
704: Community Forums
705: Community Forums
706: Community Forums
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Home
713: Member Screenshots
714: Community Forums
715: Community Forums
716: Home
717: Photo Gallery
718: Community Forums
719: Photo Gallery
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Home
724: Community Forums
725: Downloads
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Community Forums
729: Community Forums
730: Downloads
731: Community Forums
732: Home
733: Community Forums
734: Community Forums
735: Photo Gallery
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Photo Gallery
739: Downloads
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Home
744: Community Forums
745: Community Forums
746: Member Screenshots
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
servicepub
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

clive @ servicepub.com
Photo is already posted at ramtank.ca, click on Ram Survivors. Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Just sent you the pics via email....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Is this not a great display area? Very tasteful and not a lot of clutter:


Dutch AMX from the front:


...and overhead.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

Hereby to be known as the "Gavin-Lingle" (by me, anyway), I took some shots of the YPR-765 family (this may be a later version...I'm not an expert). The more I examined this vehicle, the more I wonder if we missed the boat on a satisfactory M113-M114-XM800 scout vehicle (prior to the Bradley) in a tight package. The closer I look, the more appealing this vehicle is. I don't know the service record, but I should think there would have been a role for this in our service, at least at one time.




I have to agree with you about a possible scout vehicle. Razz I remember the Army looked at a number of modified M113s and I think in the end all the testing came down to not enough money to do much. Sad What little the Scouts did get when into the XM800 project Razz Razz and as we all know, that ended up being cancelled also due to a lack of funds Crying or Very sad and other B.S. excesses. Evil or Very Mad

Again thanks for the great photos!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

It is a YPR-765PRI (Pantser Rups Infanterie), could be the normal infantry variant or a recce one which has an other arrangement of seats in the back.

For the recce units this verhicle was a interim solution awaiting the arrival of a new recce verhicle which finally arrived in december 2005 at 11 tkbat in form of the Fennek.

When the wind was good you could hear the ''enemy'' scouts leaving the assembly area because of the high pitch noise the engine made.

Other variants (past and present)of the YPR are;
YPR-765PRCO C1, C2, C3 and C4
YPR-765PRBDR (Battle damage repair)
YPR-765PRV (cargo, for the supply sgt)
YPR-765PRGWT (for the medic)
YPR-765PRMR (with a mortar behind it and racks for the ammo inside)
YPR-765PRRDR (with a battlefield surveillance radar, not in use anymore)
And a variant for the military police

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- L.Delsing
It is a YPR-765PRI (Pantser Rups Infanterie), could be the normal infantry variant or a recce one which has an other arrangement of seats in the back.

For the recce units this verhicle was a interim solution awaiting the arrival of a new recce verhicle which finally arrived in december 2005 at 11 tkbat in form of the Fennek.

When the wind was good you could hear the ''enemy'' scouts leaving the assembly area because of the high pitch noise the engine made.

Other variants (past and present)of the YPR are;
YPR-765PRCO C1, C2, C3 and C4
YPR-765PRBDR (Battle damage repair)
YPR-765PRV (cargo, for the supply sgt)
YPR-765PRGWT (for the medic)
YPR-765PRMR (with a mortar behind it and racks for the ammo inside)
YPR-765PRRDR (with a battlefield surveillance radar, not in use anymore)
And a variant for the military police

Regards,
Lesley


Thanks, Lesley...I'm looking for more background on this vehicle...a good design, I think, that got passed by without the consideration it deserves.

Oh, I got to eyeball two prototype Fenneks...one in good shape, the other worn slap out and ratty inside. Quite an interesting vehicle. I have one interior shot of the driver area (through the thick glass) that leaves a lot to be desired. I lust to drive one of these, though.

BTW, I got to poke around in a Leo 2A6 on the same trip...couldn't take any pics, but was generally impressed. One thing that's difficult to convey to other tankers, past and present, is the "compactness of size" of the crew area for the gunner and TC. Hoo-Boy!....it's mighty-tighty in thar'! The restraining bar for the gunner was interesting...I wouldn't have thought he had that much room to bounce around anyway (I was reminded of amusement park rides...."You must be this tall....or thin...to ride this ride"). The loader's area is small, compared to the old Pattons, but the right side of this vehicle is smaller than any other AFV I've ever been on. Like the Abrams, the turret size on the outside is NO indication of the amenities inside! I wish I had pics, but understandably that was forbidden.
Me likey, though! Wink

Here is the Leopard driver simulator:

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile


Cheers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile




A Centurion pillbox ???
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Doug_Kibbey
- Hellfish6
I still think Centurions are the coolest tanks ever.


Well, just for you, then.... Smile




A Centurion pillbox ???


Nahhh...just a static display. But only my good manners as a guest prevented me from demanding the CO explain why he doesn't have some one with a leaf blower, or at least a broom, follow the guys who mow the grass.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort


Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: God save us from ambivalent curators

- Doug_Kibbey


Nahhh...just a static display. But only my good manners as a guest prevented me from demanding the CO explain why he doesn't have some one with a leaf blower, or at least a broom, follow the guys who mow the grass.



It's not my museum ... but I hate to see any artifact dying of neglect.

The problem with a ground level mount will be the accumulation of water and surface rust along the bottom edges. The paint will flake and then serious rust will form. Any components that were in good condition (which of course the Dutch tankers can testify) will deteriorate rapidly. Not only do the grass clippings and mower scuffs harm the paint, but snow and ice drifts 3 or 4 months of the year.

Give the museum credit for making it a kid's level climbing gym, but the historical value of a Centurion turret will be lost in a few years (if it hasn't already). I'd encourage the museum to cut down the sloped edge of the mound to elevate the turret ring 20 or 25cm above the grade level. Even facing the slope with brick will keep the soil drier.

No doubt the current management has bigger problems, it is important for them to know that artifacts that are readily available one decade are suddenly quite scarce in only a few generations. (How much effort has been invested just in Sherman rebuilds in the last decade?) People tend to abuse military exhibits as a matter of course; would a Dutch gallery treat an Old Masters painting the same way?
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

I don't know the history of this particular vehicle, but current management's attitude toward it might be influenced by the fact that they have at least three intact Cents (that I know about, having seen them) at the same installation. I think I recall Marcel saying something about this having been part of a whole display that was rendered redundant with the acquisition of the pristine example now housed indoors (which was apparently seized from a private party that somehow failed to mention it to the authorities).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: God save us from ambivalent curators

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- Doug_Kibbey




It's not my museum ... but I hate to see any artifact dying of neglect.

The problem with a ground level mount will be the accumulation of water and surface rust along the bottom edges. The paint will flake and then serious rust will form. Any components that were in good condition (which of course the Dutch tankers can testify) will deteriorate rapidly. Not only do the grass clippings and mower scuffs harm the paint, but snow and ice drifts 3 or 4 months of the year.

No doubt the current management has bigger problems, it is important for them to know that artifacts that are readily available one decade are suddenly quite scarce in only a few generations. (How much effort has been invested just in Sherman rebuilds in the last decade?) People tend to abuse military exhibits as a matter of course; would a Dutch gallery treat an Old Masters painting the same way?


Unfortunately I know........ Sad Two examples, one in Oirschot and one at the cavalry museum Amersfoort.

1. Since years we had an old rusty Leopard 1V at our battalion which didn't work. Some platoonsergeant with the help of the technical SM tried to restore this old tank. It was not possible because everything was rustm rust and more rust. The result of years in the rain etc. With the help of some friends of the tech SM we managed to change our old Leopard 1V for a ''brandnew'' working one from the war reserve. It was still packed with preservation grease and plastic and it worked perfect. The platoonsergeant kept this one in the same verhicle shed as the Leopard 2A5/6s to prevent rain etc coming in.

But the new battalionsadjutant (under protest of the pltsgts) decided it should be in front of the building of our battalion. Well, its now one year later and guess, it won't start anymore, the stabilisation system don't work anymore..........

2. At Amersfoort they reveived the second Leopard 2A4 which was delivered to the army (the first one we sold to Austria), also from the war reserve and in perfect working order. Instead of putting it in the hall were it is dry and safe from the elements it is outside in wind and rain. I'am afraid that within a couple of years this one will be in a very bad condition also.

Barbarians, that is what they are......

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

[quote="Doug_Kibbey"]
Thanks, Lesley...I'm looking for more background on this vehicle...a good design, I think, that got passed by without the consideration it deserves.

BTW, I got to poke around in a Leo 2A6 on the same trip...couldn't take any pics, but was generally impressed. One thing that's difficult to convey to other tankers, past and present, is the "compactness of size" of the crew area for the gunner and TC. Hoo-Boy!....it's mighty-tighty in thar'! The restraining bar for the gunner was interesting...I wouldn't have thought he had that much room to bounce around anyway (I was reminded of amusement park rides...."You must be this tall....or thin...to ride this ride"). The loader's area is small, compared to the old Pattons, but the right side of this vehicle is smaller than any other AFV I've ever been on. Like the Abrams, the turret size on the outside is NO indication of the amenities inside! I wish I had pics, but understandably that was forbidden.
Me likey, though! Wink

Here is the Leopard driver simulator:


Hello Doug,
Fennek is indeed a nice verhicle, our recce platoon of our battalion will be deployed in december to Uruzgan (afghanistan) with Fenneks. We will see how they function over there.

Strange that they didn't let you take pictures, on the yearly army open day whole tribes can make pictures inside, outside, you name it and it is possible.

I think I know what you mean. Years ago we had the possibility to visit the US army storage depot in Vriezeveen were they had M1A1(HA) tanks. We were amazed at the space they had inside! Stillm I have no problems inside the Leopard 2. I'am 1,93 meters and I had a gunner which was 1,90 meters and it still fit. When I close the hatch I have a centimeter left above my helmet.

During an exercise in Germany we managed to get 6 men inside the Leopard 2A5, the normal gunner, driver and commander positions and three on the loaders place. We were at an assembly area . It was very cold outside and some of the crew of an other tank of my platoon were ''visiting'' my tank. At the loadersarea one was standing and cooking macaroni with meatballs, one was sitting on the ground below the coax machinegun and one was sitting in the basket for the empty cartridges. Hatches closed and heater on, oh ja and they were all smokers.......

If possible, what photos do you like from the inside?

regards,
Lesley

P.S. It can take a week for replying because I have a small exercise in the ardennes.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Vehicles from Dutch Cavaleriemuseum-Amersfoort

- L.Delsing
Strange that they didn't let you take pictures, on the yearly army open day whole tribes can make pictures inside, outside, you name it and it is possible.

I think I know what you mean. Years ago we had the possibility to visit the US army storage depot in Vriezeveen were they had M1A1(HA) tanks. We were amazed at the space they had inside! Stillm I have no problems inside the Leopard 2. I'am 1,93 meters and I had a gunner which was 1,90 meters and it still fit. When I close the hatch I have a centimeter left above my helmet.

If possible, what photos do you like from the inside?

regards,
Lesley

P.S. It can take a week for replying because I have a small exercise in the ardennes.


Hi Lesley...
Yes, the Fennek looked to be a very capable vehicle...and beaucoup sex appeal...I was kinda' reminded of the APC in Aliens (but with actual ground clearance....) Driver's spot is very.....cozy.

I suppose they were just being cautions at the post about pics...everybody from the armor school thingy was at a big game and we were kinda' informally poking around one in a shop bay. Pity about no pics because the light was kinda' bad in there and I couldn't see much, expecially in the gunner's "cave".
Any pics from the fighting compartment would be welcome (and I bet the forum would like to see 'em too...hint-hint) No rush...I leave for Brasil again by about the 12th.

Say, I noticed two things: I didn't see anyway to manually open the breech of the main gun...is there one?
And, where is the switch for the ammo doors for the loader? It's a knee thing on the M1, but I didn't see anything similar on the Leo.

Well, whenever you get a chance (I'll PM you my email, too)

Speaking of older Leopards, there was this 'un....



Cheers!
D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum