±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 640
Total: 640
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: CPGlang
05: Community Forums
06: Downloads
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Your Account
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Your Account
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Statistics
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Member Screenshots
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Member Screenshots
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Photo Gallery
59: Downloads
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: CPGlang
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Downloads
71: Photo Gallery
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Downloads
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Downloads
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Downloads
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Statistics
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: CPGlang
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: CPGlang
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: News Archive
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Downloads
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: CPGlang
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Downloads
172: Photo Gallery
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Downloads
179: Photo Gallery
180: Home
181: News
182: Downloads
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Photo Gallery
186: Photo Gallery
187: Member Screenshots
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Statistics
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Downloads
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Your Account
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: CPGlang
229: Downloads
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Statistics
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: News
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Your Account
245: Photo Gallery
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Downloads
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: CPGlang
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Photo Gallery
265: Downloads
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Home
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Downloads
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Statistics
326: Community Forums
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Downloads
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Home
339: Home
340: Home
341: Home
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Photo Gallery
349: Downloads
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Home
375: Photo Gallery
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Downloads
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Downloads
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Photo Gallery
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Photo Gallery
417: Photo Gallery
418: Downloads
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Photo Gallery
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Statistics
453: Statistics
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Home
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Member Screenshots
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Photo Gallery
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Downloads
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Your Account
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Your Account
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Downloads
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Photo Gallery
505: Community Forums
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Downloads
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Statistics
530: Photo Gallery
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Your Account
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Statistics
541: Photo Gallery
542: Home
543: Member Screenshots
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Member Screenshots
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Member Screenshots
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: News Archive
559: CPGlang
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Home
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: CPGlang
571: Photo Gallery
572: Home
573: Your Account
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Photo Gallery
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: Home
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Your Account
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Photo Gallery
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Your Account
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Photo Gallery
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Photo Gallery
621: Your Account
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Downloads
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Downloads
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Home
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!
Interesting report on Iwo Jima. It has been a while sense I read about that battle. This is the first time I have heard that a U.S. Army Infantry (145th) Division had moved in and replaced the VAC.

Roy I think you mean the 147th Infantry Regt. (Seperate) There were no Infantry Divisions above the 106th


That was another alertness check to see if anyone was paying attention to my flub up! Well done Bob! You passed the test!

I guess I forgot who was writting that report. It is comman in the Marine Corps to refur to regiments by their number and the title Marines. As in 9th Marines is the 9th regiment of Marines. While the Army normally refurs to divisions by the number and type. As in the 106th Infantry is the 106th division of infantry. So when I saw the 147th Infantry, I forgot a Marine was writting that report.

No divisions above 106? I guess that explains why I had never heard of the 147th Infantry Division. Confused
Sgt, Scouts Out!


I don't think you're going to slide on it that easy Rolling Eyes I can't agree that the army 'assumed' the unit was a division. I've read and heard of many references to units that were Regiments and not Divisons. In fact historically I think most references were to Regiments

If I say 7th Cav I'll bet you think of the unit that went with Custer to Little Big Horn. That was The 7th Cavalry Regiment. The Old Guard is the 3rd Infantry that's the 3rd Infantry Regiment not Division.

When Divisions were first created as a standing organizational unit early in the 20th Century the were simply Divisions It was the 1st Division, 29th Division, etc. The 'Infantry' designater did not come until just before WWII, at about the same time they went from Square Divisions (2 Brigades of 2 Regiments each) to Triangular Divisions ( No brigades and only 3 Regiments) Of course that was about the same time that Armor Divisions were created. I think Armor units are usually assumed to be divisons. My guess is that may be because for most of their existence they were not organized by regiments but by 'Combat Commands' whicjh were purposly left very nebulous and did not carry many traditions. Even after Regiments stopped being a functional organization the various battalions (which had become the basic building block of larger units) were given almost artificial Regimental lineages.

Now where is this going some of you may ask

I think it may be time to consign the division to to the dustbin of history.

Especially with the new Army structure that began with 'Units of Action' and then had those cumbersome legalistic names changed to Brigades I think that it is time to make a major switch in Army Lineage policy.

I suggest that the army take the Name and insignia of the WWII Divisons and give each one to a Brigade. The Army has so few Divisons these days that many historic and well regarded units (and insignia) are just sitting on the Hearldry shelf. At the same time the 'Division' has grown form the operational unit that moved and fought together into an administrative monstrocity that even when it deploys leaves a large foundation back at it's 'home station'.

Shoulder patches grew out of the tactical signs that Danial Butterworth developed in the Civil War to be able to tell which units troops (and he was mainly worried about skulkers and malingerers) were assigned to. With Brigades being the level at which I see units being employed at why not make that the level at which we bind the troops via identifiable units?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

FYI, "Unit of Action" (and UEs for that matter) has been out of use for about a year now. They're all just BCTs (Brigade Combat Teams) now.

For the time being, divisions still appear to have some use, but I agree they are becoming more of administrative centers/groupings as brigades have taken on more of the operational level of warfare.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

I think they should have gone to a pseudo-regimental system when naming the BCTs. Instead of having 1st Bde, 3rd ID, it should have been named after one of the major regimental units from the brigade (for instance, 66th Armor). Then the battalions in the BCT would be 1/66, 2/66, 3/66 etc.

Too bad we killed the separate brigades. They are just about what the BCTs ended up being.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Sabot
I think they should have gone to a pseudo-regimental system when naming the BCTs. Instead of having 1st Bde, 3rd ID, it should have been named after one of the major regimental units from the brigade (for instance, 66th Armor). Then the battalions in the BCT would be 1/66, 2/66, 3/66 etc.


Interesting... But the branches/schools would oppose that - a lot...

Would all armor/infantry regiments become generic maneuver regiments? - which would mean effectively merging the armor & infantry branch into a generic maneuver branch. We might be headed in that direction eventually, with the move of the Armor Center & School to Benning - but no merger of the branches as yet...

Or would infantry battalions in an Armor BCT become an infantry battalion in an armor regiment? And vice versa? Armor back in the infantry branch? My head is spinning...

And never mind the supporting artillery, forward support, and engineer battalions...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

As I remember it a 'Combat Team' meant that the base unit had been augmented with support units to make it a self supportng and more well rounded Combat unit that was capable of independent operations.

So a BCT would be more than the base infantry, armor, etc that had made up the old regiment. That is why I suggested making them the replacement for the Division. For the Reserves/Guard that would also reverse the trend of combining state units that used to stand on their own into Divisions that cross regional lines.

The new brigades would still have the mix of supporting arms that old WWII era divisons had but shed the support and administarative tail they have grown over the years and return to being primarily operational units.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

One of my little pet peeves is that despite all this talk of moving to a brigade-centric force, very little has been done toward that goal. Brigades are still part of divisions and, for the most part, still deploy as part of their parent division. There's very little modularity in practice, it seems. I think the Army History Center made the determination that all the new brigades would still be part of divisions, so we've now got the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Brigades of the 1st Infantry/1st Armored/1st Cavalry Divisions. To me, this doesn't really foster a culture of modularity or brigade-centrism.

There was a proposal a year or two ago to name each BCT uniquely - the six airborne brigades would inheiret the names of the six historical airborne divisions and seperate brigades. You'd have the 82nd, 101st, 11th, 13th, 17th and 173rd Airborne Brigades, each with their own unit patches. The Heavy BCTs would adopt the historical names of armored divisions and seperate brigades and historically mechanized infantry divisions. The Light BCTs would get their names and patches from other historical infantry divisions and brigades.

I think naming brigades individually would greatly enhance esprit and certainly foster the modularity mentality in the Army. Plus, how cool would it be to see the 2nd Armored Division patch again?

Here is the US Army today:

www4.army.mil/soldiers...rForce.pdf
Soldiers Magazine

Here is the proposed renaming convention:

www.ausa.org/pdfdocs/Lowe.pdf
Army Magazine March 2005
Back to top
View user's profile
Dubliner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

nt


Last edited by Dubliner on Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Hi folks,
From what I've seen the units are already set up for operations, unlike how we did it 5 years ago. That's cross attach platoons and company's to make up the task force. We got 3-67 Armor here under the new system. Tanks, Bradleys, Engineers, Etc all part of the Battalion. Same with the medium and light units. I think it's much better than the old way, at least you all know each other. BTW , BCT's are what they all are called with the exception of the SBCT's (Stryker). They still mark their bumper numbers that way too.
Speaking for myself only (for what it's worth), The division thing is kinda confusing and out dated now anyway. Everyone is attached here or falls under this or that. It get's pretty interesting when a troop decides what unit patch to where on the right shoulder. I know a lot of guys that after one year in country can wear up to 4 different patches. Kinda crazy. I guess that's why we went to velcro, just carry the patches in the pocket and change them out when needed. Naming Brigades individually would cut down on the confusion some. Besides, I'd like to see a 3AD patch again.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

Well, hell! Call me old-fashioned (because, in fact, I am....not for nothing does minha esposa call me "meu vaio") but if we're improvising units to the mission, what was wrong with "task force X"or if really short-lived, a "reinforced whatever" if you have to "go heavy"...since surnamed units (i.e. "Team Desobry") are out of security/fashion these days. At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").

A lot of this unit nomenclature seems like just so much sophistry to this guy. Sorry....just had to vent. Rant mode off. We now return you to our currently serving forces, already in progress. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Sabot
I think they should have gone to a pseudo-regimental system when naming the BCTs. Instead of having 1st Bde, 3rd ID, it should have been named after one of the major regimental units from the brigade (for instance, 66th Armor). Then the battalions in the BCT would be 1/66, 2/66, 3/66 etc.


Interesting... But the branches/schools would oppose that - a lot...

Would all armor/infantry regiments become generic maneuver regiments? - which would mean effectively merging the armor & infantry branch into a generic maneuver branch. We might be headed in that direction eventually, with the move of the Armor Center & School to Benning - but no merger of the branches as yet...

Or would infantry battalions in an Armor BCT become an infantry battalion in an armor regiment? And vice versa? Armor back in the infantry branch? My head is spinning...

And never mind the supporting artillery, forward support, and engineer battalions...

Neil
Take a walk through the Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning. You would be surprised at how many "armor regiment" insignias were originally infantry regiments. The infantry used to own the tanks. One of my old regiments was 68th Armor. That was once 68th Infantry Regiment (Light Tanks).

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
Well, hell! Call me old-fashioned (because, in fact, I am....not for nothing does minha esposa call me "meu vaio") but if we're improvising units to the mission, what was wrong with "task force X"or if really short-lived, a "reinforced whatever" if you have to "go heavy"...since surnamed units (i.e. "Team Desobry") are out of security/fashion these days. At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").

A lot of this unit nomenclature seems like just so much sophistry to this guy. Sorry....just had to vent. Rant mode off. We now return you to our currently serving forces, already in progress. Rolling Eyes


There are still task-organized battalions - that is unless we go to fully combined arms/maneuver battalions at some point... BCTs are Brigades - they just have more responsibility now (wide area of control aka "battlespace").

Divisions may still be necessary for full-out conventional campaigns, if one can still conceive of one...

Its all kinda a normal progression of warfare IMO. Back in Napoleonic times, the division was a tactical level instrument whereas corps and armies did operational level maneuver. I'm sure there was somebody (in fact I know there was) in the 1920s/30s complaining about the division becoming a more important formation due to mechanization, etc so that regiments & brigades took over the tactical battle.

Now we're one more step removed - with brigades at the operational level.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

In 1999, I was a member of the 'BlackJack' Bde ( 2nd Bde, 1st Cav ) deployment to Bosnia. We replaced 1st Bde, 1st Cav. MND-North was commanded by the 1st Cav CG, which meant we were under 'our own' Divisions control.

Due to rotations, HQ 1st CAV conducted a TOA (Transfer of Authority) to 10th Mtn Div (HQ element) half-way thru our rotation. From that period, till our departure ( several months ) we were 'sliced' to 10th Mtn Div.

I use this 'aged' example, to show that current BCT rotations under a different higher command is not new.

JOE.....I second your 'wish' for the 3rd AD patch. SPEARHEAD !! (how I miss her... Crying or Very sad )
(I'm sure "YAMBO" would agree to that also... Laughing

BTW Joe: I'll forward some 'REAL OLD' photos of the 'ol man' I dug up.

Just my 2 pfennigs.... Wink
Don

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink I meant Combat Team as in Regimental Combat Team or Brigade Combat Team. I left off Regiment or Brigade because I wanted to concentrate on the concept that adding Team to the unit size indicated that it was based on the unit (Regiment or Brigade) but supplemented with attached units.

The Combat Command was a subordinate unit in the 1943 style 'light' Armored divison. It was meant to be a headquarters that any portion of the divisions units could be attached to to complete a given mission. I believe the intent was to create two subordinate commands that the division commander could alter at will but I also believe that very quickly the commands became somewhat stable with units being assigned on a semipermanent basis. I don't think the concept survived the war by much.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

- bsmart
- Doug_Kibbey
At least everyone understood what you meant in the context mentioned by Bob (though I wonder, from afar, if he meant "Combat Command" as opposed to "Combat Team").


I chose my words with care Wink


Bob...
As I figgered you would...I'm just not home (or in-country) at the moment and couldn't check my own sources to see if CC or CT was the more precise term. Not that it seems to matter much these days, anyway. Thanks to your clarification, I don't have to do any checking! Wink

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Divisions, Regiments, Brigades (and history)

No problem, So are we going to see any good pictures from this trip?

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum