±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 637
Total: 637
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Your Account
04: Your Account
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: CPGlang
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Your Account
14: Downloads
15: Member Screenshots
16: Member Screenshots
17: Photo Gallery
18: Photo Gallery
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Your Account
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Statistics
50: Home
51: Statistics
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Downloads
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: CPGlang
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: CPGlang
76: Community Forums
77: Your Account
78: CPGlang
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: CPGlang
91: Downloads
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Home
110: Downloads
111: Member Screenshots
112: Community Forums
113: News
114: Downloads
115: CPGlang
116: Member Screenshots
117: Your Account
118: Home
119: Downloads
120: Member Screenshots
121: CPGlang
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Downloads
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: CPGlang
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Home
138: CPGlang
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Downloads
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: CPGlang
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Downloads
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Photo Gallery
160: Home
161: Member Screenshots
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Home
166: Home
167: Your Account
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: CPGlang
171: Member Screenshots
172: Member Screenshots
173: Member Screenshots
174: Downloads
175: CPGlang
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: CPGlang
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: CPGlang
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: CPGlang
195: Home
196: Downloads
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Downloads
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Statistics
217: CPGlang
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: CPGlang
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: CPGlang
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: CPGlang
269: Your Account
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Home
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Member Screenshots
286: Photo Gallery
287: CPGlang
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: CPGlang
294: Home
295: CPGlang
296: Community Forums
297: Downloads
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Photo Gallery
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Your Account
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Your Account
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: News
325: CPGlang
326: Member Screenshots
327: Home
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Your Account
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Member Screenshots
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Home
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Photo Gallery
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Home
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: CPGlang
359: Photo Gallery
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Your Account
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Photo Gallery
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Your Account
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: CPGlang
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Downloads
395: Home
396: Home
397: Home
398: CPGlang
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Downloads
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Downloads
408: Community Forums
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Home
426: Statistics
427: Home
428: Home
429: Home
430: Home
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Statistics
446: Member Screenshots
447: Community Forums
448: Home
449: Photo Gallery
450: Home
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Photo Gallery
454: Member Screenshots
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Member Screenshots
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Home
478: CPGlang
479: Photo Gallery
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: CPGlang
485: Community Forums
486: Your Account
487: Home
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: CPGlang
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Downloads
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: CPGlang
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Your Account
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Downloads
525: Photo Gallery
526: Downloads
527: Home
528: News
529: Community Forums
530: Your Account
531: Community Forums
532: CPGlang
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Home
536: Statistics
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Downloads
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Home
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: CPGlang
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Your Account
553: CPGlang
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: CPGlang
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Downloads
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Photo Gallery
567: Home
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Photo Gallery
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: CPGlang
578: Photo Gallery
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: CPGlang
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Member Screenshots
588: Your Account
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: CPGlang
594: Community Forums
595: Your Account
596: Home
597: Home
598: Member Screenshots
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: CPGlang
607: CPGlang
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Home
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: CPGlang
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Community Forums
619: Home
620: Photo Gallery
621: Photo Gallery
622: Community Forums
623: Member Screenshots
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Your Account
629: Community Forums
630: Home
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Where is the SN on a Sherman?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:28 pm
Post subject: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Hello,

I'm doing a little trip next week and I will be able to see some sherman tanks that are exposed in France. I don't know where to find the serial number. Also , what information could I easily get from these tanks that would be useful for you, and where could I find it?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Most of the time you can find them on the rear tow lugs/points, assuming they havent been painted over several times.

Neil

From the Sherman register:
web.inter.nl.net/users...serial.htm

M4 and M4A1
The tank serial number is only stamped on a plate attached to the lower left hull plate.

M4A2
The tank serial number is stamped on the two rear tow points.

M4A3
Apart from on the data plate, the Ford built M4A3 has its serial number and Ordnance serial number stamped on the rear hull plate. The numbers are stamped on the right side, the smaller of the two numbers is the Ordnance s/n, the larger is the Ford s/n. These numbers are repeated on the right side of the front armour, but you really have to look for it. Also, the Ford s/n is repeated on several of the major parts, such as the mantlet.
On the ultimate generation M4A3s built by Grand Blanc Tank Arsenal, the serial number is stamped on the two rear tow points. The Detroit Tank Arsenal tanks are rather problematic. Some of their vehicles have the serial number stamped on the two rear tow points, while others lack any serial number markings other than on the data plate.

M4A4
The vehicle serial is stamped on each boss to which the towing shackle is attached.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Thanks Neil, I will print this page, it's very informative. Anything else I could get or take in photo?

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Just as an example, here's a picture Jeff Button took of the tow lug on an M4A3(105) - its pretty typical of what you are looking for.



Honestly, I'm not real good at finding the SNs anywhere else on a Sherman, but there may be other examples that have been posted here (I'll try to look for one).

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

This page may also be of interest - it explains other stamps & castings you may see, but they are generally of less importance:

web.inter.nl.net/users...oundry.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:41 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

There are various ways to identify a Sherman, even if you can not find a serial number. Most Shermans were built by Chysler or Fisher. A build number by Chrysler would appear on the right side-edge of the front glacis. Fisher's would be on the opposite side.
- Early Shermans had 3 small "weep" holes(drain holes) in the rear area of the turret splash gaurds, later modles had 1 large hole.
- These two companies also filled in their differential over-cuts differently. Chrysler appears to be a half-round fill, while Fishers are square in appearance.
- Early M4A3s had one piece rear engine deck plate, while later models and those that were rebuilt had the preferred two piece.
- All 47degree hull M4A3s had 5 digit serial numbers.
- A Sherman thats had HVSS upgarde, usually has weld scars on the left and right of the upper rear hull plate where the spare VVSS track holders were removed.
- If you find a "CP" in front of a part number on the glacis, this would indicate a Chrysler/Plymouth build.
- If you find a Sherman with HVSS, check to see if its a rebuild or original HVSS by looking at the suspension mounts on the side of the hull. Factory HVSS is bolted on while retro-fitted HVSS is welded on.
- Also look at the track, T66 track is all metal and relatively rare due to it being inferior and not liked by crews. They were the first type of track used on HVSS M4A3 (76) sent to Europe during WWII.
These are just a few of the tips sent to me by Joe DeMarco while I researched and "decoded" the 8 M4's here at Ft Hood. I have pictures of all these examples I have listed but they are on my work computer and not here at home. I just photograph and write down each and every marking I think is appicable to the vehicles ID.
The site Doug lists with its Foundry markings can also help alot, since many of the foundries only operated during certain years and for cetain vehicle types. Those foundry marks will also help with M26, M48, M60's as well. I hope this helps. I'll try and get those pictures on here if I can. A pictures worth a thousand words, esspecially when researching armor!

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

This is "Barfly" an M4A3E8 (76)HVSS, serial number 63350, Reg number 30116372. It was built December 1944 at Fisher Grand Blanc Arsenal. Fisher only built 525 M4A3's between Sept and December of 1944. This tank originally had VVSS suspension. The HVSS was most likely retrofitted at Red River Arsenal. Turret appears appears to have come from an earlier Chrysler M4A3 (76) due to the extra lifting ring in front of the split loaders hatch. Chrysler used 400-500 of those turrets on the earliest M4A3 (76) they built. The turret appears to be a left over from Chryslers abortive T23 program where the extra lifting ring served a winch purpose on the T23 medium tank.
Joe DeMarco came across a US Archievesdocument that shows 30116372 as having been issued to the 13th Tank Battalion, 1st AD, Italy, 4/1/45.
-The rear deck had the two piece deck cover.
-The sqaure "fill-in" weld area by the front diff's indicates a Fisher build. Chryslers hull builds look like half circle fills.
-The rear tow lug on this tank was on the left, however I have found them on either rear tow lug, but never the front.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

Here are two more pictures I found that will help you identify and date an M4 model. "Barfly" from the previous pictures has the one large "weep" (drain) hole in the turret splash gaurd, which would indicate a later built Sherman. Here is a picture of an early build example with the two smaller drain holes. I also previously posted the square "diff fill area" that would indicate a Fisher build M4. This picture shows a round fill, which was typical of Chrysler built M4's. Here is also a picture of where Chrysler build stampings would be found on the front edge of the glacis, Fishers were on the opposite side.


_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?






Here are some more photo's I dug up that help you identify between a Chrysler and Fisher built M4. I will never look at an M4 varient the same way again now knowing all the little intricacies there are to tell all the differences.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: Where is the SN on a Sherman?

A 'trick' I have used to make stamped serial numbers show up better is to simply rub over them a few times with my thumb. It clears the oxidized paint and dust a little and seems to give the stamped numbers a little more contrast. It can also make the are stand out a little better in the photo. I keep meaning to put some 'Wetnaps' or baby wipes in the truck so that I don't have to use my thumb but never think about it until it's too late. Oh and remember that most old paint is lead based so don't go licking you fingers after you've been rubbing tanks. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum