±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 302
Total: 302
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Home
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: News Archive
08: Home
09: Photo Gallery
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: CPGlang
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: CPGlang
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Photo Gallery
37: CPGlang
38: Community Forums
39: CPGlang
40: Home
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Statistics
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Photo Gallery
48: Photo Gallery
49: CPGlang
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Home
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Downloads
68: Downloads
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Downloads
74: Community Forums
75: CPGlang
76: CPGlang
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Photo Gallery
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Home
88: Home
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: CPGlang
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Home
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: CPGlang
120: CPGlang
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: CPGlang
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Home
133: Home
134: Home
135: Home
136: Home
137: News Archive
138: Home
139: Home
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: CPGlang
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Downloads
149: CPGlang
150: Home
151: Home
152: Home
153: Home
154: Downloads
155: Home
156: Home
157: Home
158: CPGlang
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Photo Gallery
163: Home
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Photo Gallery
167: Home
168: Photo Gallery
169: Home
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Downloads
177: Home
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: CPGlang
181: Home
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: CPGlang
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Home
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Statistics
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Photo Gallery
207: CPGlang
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Photo Gallery
218: Home
219: Downloads
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: CPGlang
226: Photo Gallery
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Statistics
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: CPGlang
270: Home
271: Member Screenshots
272: CPGlang
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: CPGlang
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Home
284: Statistics
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Downloads
290: Home
291: Home
292: Downloads
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:57 pm
Post subject: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

This was recently posted in the "souvenirs" section of my favorite website and homepage, the VHPAmuseum. I can't identify the type of tank from this, but maybe someone here can and we can amplify the caption, which I could have done with reliable input. The image can be accessed here:

(I'm not going to hotlink it and ask that you don't and steal John's bandwidth, he's a good friend and hosts my stuff over there...just click the link to see it)

www.vhpamuseum.org/sou...tuff-6.jpg

The caption reads:

"This data plate, No. 701C42, was taken from a Chinese tank destroyed ne ar Hue, Vietnam during the Spring Offensive of 1972. This tank was destroyed by a helicopter launched TOW missile. I think it was the 2nd combat aerial TOW team which was attached to the 11th combat aviation group out of DaNang. I believe they stayed with a cav unit, on Tan Mi island or with a cav unit in Phu Bai, maybe the 9th or 17th cav. These TOW ships were not AH1G COBRAS they were Hueys, possibly C models or D models and flew with a COBRA team for cover. "

As I'd been stationed and worked that area until January '72 when I left to join Roy with the 2/11th, I missed that bit of excitement by about 60-90 days, which is just as well since we'd likely have been over-run in that location. Rolling Eyes

Any thoughts on what type this was? Whose kanji is good enough to read this?

I'm pretty sure the unit involved wasn't 17th Cav as I was 17th Cav and know what we operated and TOW wasn't amongst our stuff, even on C Troop birds over at Phu Bai where we all were by early '72...and all 17th Cav had gone by the time of this action I feel sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Well,

the after-action reports only mention M41s (captured examples) and T-54s as the types of tanks killed by the aerial TOW teams (flying UH-1Bs), so it's probably the latter, although I can't remember if the Chinese still built straight T-54s at that time or if those were already Type 59s. The 7.6 visible on the data plate had me leaning towards a PT-76, but those are not among the victims listed in the reports. Cool

Cheers,

Jens O.

furiously trying to get his scanner back online
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Thanks, Jens...
What we had remaining in-country was one troop of 17th Cav (OH-6's, UH-1D's and AH-1G Cobras) with some ancillary units assigned, which included A Bty, 4/77th ARA (all Cobra's), none with TOW capacity, I believe. I'm inclined to think this was flying out of Da Nang, but I'll do some checking around.

I have some Chinese contacts and other who read the more fundamental type of kanji typical of the PRC, so I'll see if that can shed some light on this when I get a chance.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

- Jens_O_Mehner
Well,

the after-action reports only mention M41s (captured examples) and T-54s as the types of tanks killed by the aerial TOW teams (flying UH-1Bs), so it's probably the latter, although I can't remember if the Chinese still built straight T-54s at that time or if those were already Type 59s. The 7.6 visible on the data plate had me leaning towards a PT-76, but those are not among the victims listed in the reports. Cool


It looks like a data plate for a Type 60.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************


Last edited by JimWeb on Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Looking into this, it would seem likely to have been May '72 or later, as the earliest time I can find documented for TOW use is out of Pleiku with the 1st and 2nd TOW Detachments (the "2nd combat aerial TOW team") using the BGM-71's on UH-1B models. Elements of the 2nd may have come north to support a rapidly deteriorating situation. All Cobra engagements that involved tanks used either HEAT or HEDP rockets, not TOW (just as suggested by the original caption).

Looks like the 2nd Tow Detachment may have been kept "on the move" by a fluid situation and the advance of NVA armor down QL-1.

I have my issues of Army Aviation Digest with the serialized "Armed Helicopter Story", but I think that stops just as this was occuring...ending about New Year's '72...talk about "news in the making"....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Ok if i have someone translate that label?
the other site i go to people speak everything, someone might translate it
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

- armyjunk2
Ok if i have someone translate that label?
the other site i go to people speak everything, someone might translate it


By all means, take a shot!
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:08 am
Post subject:

I DELETED THIS


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Let's hope their Chinese is better than their Japanese.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

I have a medical/business associate from PRC I can email it to...he was even at our company today, but it was before I had seen this. I'll send it to him tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
famo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:08 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

I can try it,but wait until i look for some glossary.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

My mans says:

"It looks like from a Chinese manufacturer. But it is only an electronic fire control panel for machine gun and canon. It is an instruction how to operate the panel in order to fire the weapon. There is no indication of what type of tank."

He has offered a more complete tranlation, and I've taken him up on it...so we'll see. If anyone has something to offer, we'll surely listen. My contact did time in PRC armed forces, so I do tend to take his word for it.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
famo
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:05 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Here is

DCC Control Panel
7.6 Kg

The manual valve in powercylinder should be rotate to Zd position
before turn on switcher CZ

Stabilizer
Switch On
Before turn the lever in the elevating mechanism to the lower position,wait
1.5~2 minutes after the switcher CZ turned on
Switch Off
Turn the lever in the elevating mechanism to the upper position(The handwheel should be rotataed until the lever turn to the upper position If the lever not in the upper position),then switch off the the switcher CZ

Electric Control Device
Use the switcher SP to turn on or turn off the device.The device should not
be turned on if no need

Fire the weapon
Machinegun trigger is in the handlever on the left corner of controlpanel. Gun trigger is in the handlever on the right corner of controlpanel.
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:14 am
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

Excellent! Thank you!

Now, do we have any idea what vehicle that makes this?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Data plate from ChiCom tank destroyed near Hue '72.

- Doug_Kibbey
Looking into this, it would seem likely to have been May '72 or later, as the earliest time I can find documented for TOW use is out of Pleiku with the 1st and 2nd TOW Detachments (the "2nd combat aerial TOW team") using the BGM-71's on UH-1B models. Elements of the 2nd may have come north to support a rapidly deteriorating situation. All Cobra engagements that involved tanks used either HEAT or HEDP rockets, not TOW (just as suggested by the original caption).

Looks like the 2nd Tow Detachment may have been kept "on the move" by a fluid situation and the advance of NVA armor down QL-1.

I have my issues of Army Aviation Digest with the serialized "Armed Helicopter Story", but I think that stops just as this was occuring...ending about New Year's '72...talk about "news in the making"....


In the fall of '72 I was at VMI. I remember us watching 'hot off the press' footage from the TOW test detachment in Vietnam of some of their missions. If I remember correctly the films were handcarried down by a member of the test evaluation team who narrated them and answered questions. (We used to get a fair number of such visits, often on a Friday when there was a home football game on Saturday. Ther would sometimes be 2 or 3 UH-1s sitting on the Parade Field or on a field behind the barracks where alumni had flown 'cross country hours' to come in. sometimes there would be a presentation of some kind for those who wanted to attend of some dog and pony show that was making the rounds in official circles) anyway I remember most of the missions being against abandoned South Vietnamese vehicles to keep them from falling into enemy hands. There were a few shots of missions against NVA armor and some against fixed positions. I remember a couple against machineguns that had been placed in Water towers (some of which were concrete and pretty 'hard') Yea we were young and gung ho and ate the stuff up.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum