±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 732
Total: 732
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: CPGlang
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Photo Gallery
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: CPGlang
18: Photo Gallery
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: News
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: CPGlang
28: Community Forums
29: CPGlang
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Home
39: News Archive
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Member Screenshots
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Statistics
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: CPGlang
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Your Account
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Home
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Member Screenshots
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Photo Gallery
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Member Screenshots
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: News
105: Community Forums
106: CPGlang
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: News
125: Home
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Your Account
130: Photo Gallery
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Your Account
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Photo Gallery
140: Member Screenshots
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Photo Gallery
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Your Account
166: Photo Gallery
167: Home
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Downloads
187: Home
188: Downloads
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Your Account
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Your Account
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Downloads
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Downloads
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Downloads
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Your Account
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Statistics
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Member Screenshots
247: Photo Gallery
248: Home
249: Photo Gallery
250: Home
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Member Screenshots
255: Member Screenshots
256: Downloads
257: CPGlang
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Your Account
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Home
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Photo Gallery
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Your Account
294: Downloads
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: CPGlang
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: CPGlang
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Member Screenshots
314: Your Account
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: News Archive
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: CPGlang
333: Community Forums
334: CPGlang
335: Photo Gallery
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: CPGlang
339: Your Account
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Member Screenshots
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Photo Gallery
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Photo Gallery
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Your Account
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Statistics
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Statistics
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Member Screenshots
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: CPGlang
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Photo Gallery
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Downloads
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Home
407: Community Forums
408: Home
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Statistics
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: CPGlang
427: Photo Gallery
428: Your Account
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Photo Gallery
437: CPGlang
438: Community Forums
439: Downloads
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Photo Gallery
444: Photo Gallery
445: Photo Gallery
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Your Account
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Member Screenshots
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Member Screenshots
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Home
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Photo Gallery
480: Home
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Downloads
484: Community Forums
485: Member Screenshots
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Home
514: Community Forums
515: Downloads
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Photo Gallery
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: CPGlang
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Your Account
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Photo Gallery
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Member Screenshots
558: Member Screenshots
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Statistics
562: Member Screenshots
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Home
569: Photo Gallery
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Home
573: Photo Gallery
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Member Screenshots
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Community Forums
582: Home
583: Home
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Home
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: CPGlang
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Home
596: Community Forums
597: Home
598: Downloads
599: Home
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Community Forums
603: CPGlang
604: Home
605: CPGlang
606: Community Forums
607: Member Screenshots
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Home
612: Community Forums
613: Member Screenshots
614: CPGlang
615: Photo Gallery
616: Downloads
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: CPGlang
621: CPGlang
622: Member Screenshots
623: Community Forums
624: Photo Gallery
625: Downloads
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Home
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Photo Gallery
639: Downloads
640: Community Forums
641: CPGlang
642: Photo Gallery
643: Photo Gallery
644: Community Forums
645: Photo Gallery
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Photo Gallery
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Member Screenshots
655: Photo Gallery
656: Home
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Photo Gallery
663: Community Forums
664: Home
665: Community Forums
666: Photo Gallery
667: Community Forums
668: CPGlang
669: Community Forums
670: Home
671: Community Forums
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: Member Screenshots
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Photo Gallery
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Downloads
690: Member Screenshots
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Photo Gallery
695: Photo Gallery
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: Home
701: Community Forums
702: Your Account
703: Community Forums
704: Photo Gallery
705: Community Forums
706: Home
707: Community Forums
708: Statistics
709: Home
710: Photo Gallery
711: Photo Gallery
712: Community Forums
713: Community Forums
714: Community Forums
715: Photo Gallery
716: Community Forums
717: Photo Gallery
718: Community Forums
719: Your Account
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: Home
726: CPGlang
727: Photo Gallery
728: Community Forums
729: Photo Gallery
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armor penetration formula
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
blair
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:05 am
Post subject: Armor penetration formula

A long time ago I had cme across an article that described a formula regarding the increased resistance of armor depending on the degree of angle. I'm sure I have my numbers mixed up but basically the formula stated that If you took a a plate of armor 2 inches thick and then angled it by 25 degrees the armor would then have the same penetration resistance depth of 4 inches of vertical armor.

The higher the angle then the higher the resistence depth.

Does anyone know any more about this principle/theory?
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

Blimey this is really basic geometry!!!

Pick up a book which will represent our armour plate - measure its width then angle it at 45 degrees and measure it from corner to corner - That how thick the armour becomes along the horizontal....

Rolling Eyes

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

Where is Lorrin (from the old board) when you need him Rolling Eyes

If I understand your question Jim has the basics laid out pretty well. When I explain this on tours at Aberdeen I use my hand spaced about3" apart first vertically then at an angle. A 45 degree angle gives you about 1.707 times the thickness that vertical plate will, a 60 degree angle doubles the thickness. This is all geometry , Sines & Cosines (depending on if you are measuring the angle from the horizontal or vertical)

There would be a higher chance of the round 'glancing off' as the angle increases but I'm not sure this would be easy to calculate especially since the shape of the nose and the relative hardness probably play into the factoring.

And if you hit an angled plate (say the 47 degree nose of a Sherman) at an angle off of dead ahead (say 45 degrees off to the side) the angle effect is compunded. ( you get thickness * 1.7 (approx factor for 47 degree armor * 1.7 factor for the angle shot) or a total increase in thickness of 2.89.

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

IIRC ricochet or "skip" starts when the slope is 45* or greater. Firing tests have shown that resistance can actually degrade when the slope exceeds about 56*. I imagine these facts heavily influenced the slope of both the Sherman and the Panther glacis plates.
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:30 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

- JWB2
IIRC ricochet or "skip" starts when the slope is 45* or greater. Firing tests have shown that resistance can actually degrade when the slope exceeds about 56*. I imagine these facts heavily influenced the slope of both the Sherman and the Panther glacis plates.


Yes but rounds have been designed to overcome this by having flat angled fronts under ballistic caps to enable them to dig in.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:08 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

- blair
A long time ago I had cme across an article that described a formula regarding the increased resistance of armor depending on the degree of angle. I'm sure I have my numbers mixed up but basically the formula stated that If you took a a plate of armor 2 inches thick and then angled it by 25 degrees the armor would then have the same penetration resistance depth of 4 inches of vertical armor.

The higher the angle then the higher the resistence depth.

Does anyone know any more about this principle/theory?


Goes like this:

Y/cos(Z)=X

where Y is the thickness of the armour plate
where Z is the angle of the armour, with vertical=0
and X is the effective thickness of the armour.

As an example using the frontal hull armour of the Soviet T34 , you get

Y=45mm
Z=60 degrees

and thus:

45/cos(60)=90

meaning that the distance the projectile has to travel through the armour plate is doubled when the plate is sloped at 60 degrees.

However......

That is not by any means equal to the actual resistance of the armour plate in any condition. Far from it. To even begin to approach that issue, you need to take into account a large number of factors including armour quality and hardness, projectile type (AP, APC, sub-caliber, HEAT etc.), projectile design, projectile caliber, projectile hardness and a lot of other elements.
The problem is mainly that while a perpendicular hit on the armour plate will spend most of its energy on going through the armour plate, once the projectile hits a sloped surface, it will have a tendency to move away from the plate and under the right conditions simply bounce off. Whether it bounces or not depends among other things on the shape of the projectiles nose: a pointed nose will tend to bounce, a flat nose will tend to dig in. It also depends on the relationship between the diameter of the projectile (d) and the thickness of the armour (t): if the so-called t/d ratio is more than 1 (say, 45mm of armour hit by a 37mm round) hitting, the projectile will be more likely to bounce off. If the t/d ratio is less than 1 (say, 45mm of armour hit by 75mm projectile) then the projectile will be less likely to bounce off.

It soon gets very complicated....... Smile

I'm deeply suspicious of the idea that an angle of more than 56 degrees will degrade performance, at least not in general. If that was the case, then tanks would have 55 degree slopes on their front hull and no more, which is clearly not the case. The T34 had 60 degree slope on the front hull and post-war tanks tend to get as much slope as possible, just look at Soviet designs. Also, US tanks like the M48 (60 degree front hull) and the M60 (65 degree front hull) shows an increase in slope over the WWII designs (M4 Sherman 56 and 47 degrees, M26 Pershing 56 degrees).

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:09 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

In addition once a projectile starts to penetrate it will tend to turn toward the orthoganal.

Face hardened vs homogenious can effect this as well.

For naval vessels there some info at:
www.navweaps.com/index...x_tech.htm
and of course:
www.navweaps.com/index...nathan.htm
which has some formulas and programs as well as info.

Unfortuantly I don't know of a simlar site for AFVs some of this will relate but exactly how is not my area of expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

Yes but rounds have been designed to overcome this by having flat angled fronts under ballistic caps to enable them to dig in.

That only happens if the projectile is harder than the armor.

I'm deeply suspicious of the idea that an angle of more than 56 degrees will degrade performance, at least not in general.

That is the result of a firing test conducted by the US Army. IIRC it was 90mm vs Panther type armor so it probably has a lot to do with undermatch. Post war tank armor was desiged to deal with HVAP and early APDS.
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:22 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

That is the result of a firing test conducted by the US Army. IIRC it was 90mm vs Panther type armor so it probably has a lot to do with undermatch. Post war tank armor was desiged to deal with HVAP and early APDS.


But the T-34s armour wasn't.....

90mm projectile vs 80mm of Panther frontal armour gives a T/D of 0.88 which is not exactly a massive "undermatch", in fact it is in the same ballpark as, say, a German 75mm vs a late-war Sherman hull at 63mm (T/D 0.84). In the latter case, your logic would dictate that hitting the Shermans armour at an angle of 40 degrees from the side would have a better chance of penetring than a hit at 30 degrees from the side. That sounds rather counterintuitive to me.....
I've yet to see an actual test result, official penetration data or an emperically based penetration formula that would result in what you describe - resistance of armour degrading at angles over 56 degrees. So unless you can point to the exact tests, I'd have to say that it is either a fairy tale or at least a misunderstanding.

Claus B
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:33 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

- bsmart
Where is Lorrin (from the old board) when you need him Rolling Eyes


We'll remember you said that, Bob...especially if he actually shows up and registers to post. Wink (Be sure to notify Bushy, he'll need to lay on an extra terabyte or two of bandwidth). Alas, we don't have Russ on hand (owing to other "distractions" at the moment, lucky him) to keep him in check if he does.

...and I'm on my way out of the country for a couple of weeks, so if his apparition appears....handle it! Mr. Green
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:18 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

Hey, I never had a problem with Lorrin. I didn't agree with all his theories (Heck I'm not sure I even understood all his theories Rolling Eyes ) but he did bring a passion and dedication to the discussions.

Have a good trip (you gotta arrange for a layover in the Philly/ Baltimore/DC) region on one of them so we can visit Aberdeen) and we'll try to keep everyone under control (or at least keep them from parking the tanks on the zoomies runway)

_________________
Bob Smart (bsmart@xecu.net)
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

Doug,

Alas, we don't have Russ on hand (owing to other "distractions" at the moment, lucky him)


I was wondering how Russ was doing, good to here he's OK, I miss his posts.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

I miss Russ too. no fun not having to warn against spit takes

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

- Joe_D
Doug,

Alas, we don't have Russ on hand (owing to other "distractions" at the moment, lucky him)


I was wondering how Russ was doing, good to here he's OK, I miss his posts.

Joe D


I spoke with Russ recently, and am happy to report that his absence is due to his having discovered romance that is occupying a lot of his time, which inexplicably, he is finding preferable to the company of a bunch of fellow curmudgeons. "Bully for him", I say! We mean to do a tour of the El Monte collection soon (when I get in off the road for more than two weeks at a time Rolling Eyes ) but he sounded great!

I miss his humor as well.....

This update brought you courtesy of the Flagship Lounge at Chicago O'Hare Airport....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JWB2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: Armor penetration formula

- clausb
That is the result of a firing test conducted by the US Army. IIRC it was 90mm vs Panther type armor so it probably has a lot to do with undermatch. Post war tank armor was desiged to deal with HVAP and early APDS.


But the T-34s armour wasn't.....

90mm projectile vs 80mm of Panther frontal armour gives a T/D of 0.88 which is not exactly a massive "undermatch", in fact it is in the same ballpark as, say, a German 75mm vs a late-war Sherman hull at 63mm (T/D 0.84). In the latter case, your logic would dictate that hitting the Shermans armour at an angle of 40 degrees from the side would have a better chance of penetring than a hit at 30 degrees from the side. That sounds rather counterintuitive to me.....
I've yet to see an actual test result, official penetration data or an emperically based penetration formula that would result in what you describe - resistance of armour degrading at angles over 56 degrees. So unless you can point to the exact tests, I'd have to say that it is either a fairy tale or at least a misunderstanding.

Claus B

I got the info from C.G. Erickson a few years ago at one of the visits to Littlefields.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum