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Report from Ordnance Museum trip
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

Well, since nobody commented on the position of the road wheels, I will: Why they displayed them up on the center guides like that is anybody's guess...but what Bob and I really talked about, and I don't know is a feature of any of the other MBT-70 prototypes, is the exposed hydraulic lines in the suspension. I mean, small, vulnerable lines that wouldn't survive a day of typical operation in the real world of tanking. You can't see them well in this small view, but they're there. Some of them coil. These are the size of brake lines in your car. Bob speculated that they might have been for test equipment or would have been internalized in the production version (or covered with armor if external)....they certainly would have had to have been. Does anybody know for sure what's up with those?

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

I think even the large actuator cylinders for the HydroPneumatic suspension (Which are visiblebehind each suspension arm) would be vulnerable and should be behind armor plate. Now whether that plate would be between the hull and the roadwheels or as skirts outside the roadwheels (or some combination) would be speculation withoutmore information

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

T3 Christie without the funny green tint and German snubby SP.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

Bob and I arrived early and before the (blistering) heat, we were blessed with some fog and attendant soft light. Who doesn't love an M24 and M10....?
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

Very Nice,

Doug, I agree, I need to see APG and hope I can do it with one of these CIA gatherings. I just don't see it hapening for a little while.

About that "Snubby German TD". Is the track on backward???? I know if it was T97 (M60 track) or T156 (M1 track) the chevrons would be the other way. Unless the Germans subscribe to a differerent school of thought on track. Maybe Jens could comment.

Joe D
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

- Joe_D
Very Nice,

Doug, I agree, I need to see APG and hope I can do it with one of these CIA gatherings. I just don't see it hapening for a little while.

About that "Snubby German TD". Is the track on backward???? I know if it was T97 (M60 track) or T156 (M1 track) the chevrons would be the other way. Unless the Germans subscribe to a differerent school of thought on track. Maybe Jens could comment.

Joe D


Joe,
'Dunno 'bout those tracks...gotta' refer to Jens or someone who knows the type...certainly not me!

M42 and Priest...
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:16 am
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

Stuart & PzIII
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:39 am
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

Yes,

the tracks on the JgPz Kanone are on backwards, and the barrel on the M10 is certainly not an original one, either. Cool

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

The M10 was an ex Italian Army vehicle. The Italians shortened the barrel because of it's use in narrow streets . The collar on it is a counterweight to make up for the missing weight.

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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

- bsmart
The M10 was an ex Italian Army vehicle. The Italians shortened the barrel because of it's use in narrow streets . The collar on it is a counterweight to make up for the missing weight.


Thanks,

that explains it nicely, Bob.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

- Doug_Kibbey
Well, since nobody commented on the position of the road wheels, I will: Why they displayed them up on the center guides like that is anybody's guess...but what Bob and I really talked about, and I don't know is a feature of any of the other MBT-70 prototypes, is the exposed hydraulic lines in the suspension. I mean, small, vulnerable lines that wouldn't survive a day of typical operation in the real world of tanking. You can't see them well in this small view, but they're there. Some of them coil. These are the size of brake lines in your car. Bob speculated that they might have been for test equipment or would have been internalized in the production version (or covered with armor if external)....they certainly would have had to have been. Does anybody know for sure what's up with those?



Doug

This is an early test bed vehicle. Typically the developer will 'fudge' on non-essential internalization due to access when ( or if) main items need to be modified.

The small lines are on the LST buildings MBT 70, Pilot 6. I'm not sure if they are present on the # 4 pilot. Guess I'll have to check that out....



Don
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

More "rusting vehicles" from Aberdeen....
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

Even more examples of rusting vehicles....
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

You may have noted - or Bob probably pointed out - that the Sherman has an experimental HVSS suspension.. The M2 Medium has an M2A1 turret, and the Leo 1 is also a prototype.

Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Report from Ordnance Museum trip

- Neil_Baumgardner
You may have noted - or Bob probably pointed out - that the Sherman has an experimental HVSS suspension.. The M2 Medium has an M2A1 turret, and the Leo 1 is also a prototype.

Neil


Yep, I'm just being lazy with my filenames and snide in my posting, for reasons that are probably obvious. Wink

(Didn't know about the Leopard being a prototype, though)
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