±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 575
Total: 575
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Downloads
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: News Archive
14: Member Screenshots
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: Photo Gallery
18: Your Account
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Downloads
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Home
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Your Account
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Downloads
50: Downloads
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Your Account
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Statistics
121: Community Forums
122: Photo Gallery
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: CPGlang
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Statistics
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Downloads
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Member Screenshots
171: Downloads
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Downloads
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Member Screenshots
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Member Screenshots
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Downloads
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Your Account
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: News Archive
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: CPGlang
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Member Screenshots
252: Home
253: Your Account
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Downloads
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Downloads
270: Photo Gallery
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Photo Gallery
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Downloads
286: Downloads
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Your Account
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Your Account
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Member Screenshots
331: Downloads
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Statistics
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Home
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Statistics
354: Photo Gallery
355: Your Account
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Downloads
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Community Forums
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Home
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Your Account
400: Your Account
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Member Screenshots
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Home
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Member Screenshots
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: CPGlang
425: Community Forums
426: CPGlang
427: Photo Gallery
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: CPGlang
437: Downloads
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Member Screenshots
446: Photo Gallery
447: Home
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Home
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Home
456: Downloads
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Photo Gallery
460: CPGlang
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Your Account
466: Community Forums
467: Downloads
468: Home
469: Statistics
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Downloads
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Your Account
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Downloads
493: Downloads
494: Photo Gallery
495: Home
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Photo Gallery
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Photo Gallery
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Downloads
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Downloads
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: CPGlang
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Photo Gallery
548: Photo Gallery
549: Home
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Home
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Your Account
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Your Account
572: Community Forums
573: Home
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

It all seems to go back to,....where did it originate?

As I understand it, the Afghan discovered WWI TANKS (!!) are supposed to have been U.S. manufactured, FT17's (aka FT18 ?, M1918 ?).

I don't know what the exact model is called. There are some differences between 'our' M1918 & FT17, so I assume them to be different models (ie FT17 being French make & FT18 being US make of same tank).

I guess I need to add this subject to my 'gotta find out for myself' file.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

notice both types of turrets on French machines, I go for the mufflers,,its easy and simple


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.

As Neil says, there is some controversy over 'FT-18', in fact even 'FT-17'. The French apparently only ever used the term FT, and allocating model numbers (to represent 1917 and 1918) has been done since so is not 'official'. In any case, they only apply to French vehicles, the US one is M1917 (no 'FT').

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


Ah HA!! There are both examples here, which match up to supposed manufacturer. That makes sense, Thank you!


As Neil says, there is some controversy over 'FT-18', in fact even 'FT-17'. The French apparently only ever used the term FT, and allocating model numbers (to represent 1917 and 1918) has been done since so is not 'official'. In any case, they only apply to French vehicles, the US one is M1917 (no 'FT').


Okay, so,....all US made FT17's (with metal front idler wheels) are actually M1917's??

"MY BRAIN HURTS!!" (ref: one of my favorite lines ala Monty Python)
Mr. Green
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


However, the wooden parts of the wheels were sometimes replaced by metal parts (because of the wood decay). But the French wheel has a very different design compared to the US one, and even with metal sheets replacing wood ones, it can be easily identified as French.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

Fort Brown, Brownsville, Texas circa 1918


_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

again the muffler always works.........always
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

So is this an FT-17? This is the picture that got my curiosity going Smile


_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

No muffler on this side I believe would make this a French Renault FT17..plus I don't if this is always the case but the US tanks seem to have lifting points just to the rear of the turret and I don't seem to see any on the French models....The US models had Buda engines in them...is it snowing in chicago?
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- Dontos


Okay, so,....all US made FT17's (with metal front idler wheels) are actually M1917's??


FT-17s were built (in France) by Renault. Most were used by the French army, but some were given to the US army & used in France (such as by Patton). There are very few actual FT-17s in the US. One American combat-survivor FT-17 is at the Fort Meade Museum.

M1917s were a license-built copy made in the US. Mostly used for training in the 1920s. None, that I am aware of, went to France and actually fought. A few surviving examples have bullet marks from testing...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- the_shadock
- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


However, the wooden parts of the wheels were sometimes replaced by metal parts (because of the wood decay). But the French wheel has a very different design compared to the US one, and even with metal sheets replacing wood ones, it can be easily identified as French.

P-O


Yeah, I didnt think you could trust the wooden vs metal wheels aspect...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

According to my info, including from Hayes Otoupalik (best source of info I have found), is for the following FT-17s & M1917s in the US:

FT-17s:
Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, FORT KNOX, KY (1)
Jackson Barracks Military Museum, NEW ORLEANS, LA (1)
Fort George G. Meade Museum, FORT GEORGE G. MEADE, MD (1 - “Five of Hearts" - US Army WWI combat veteran)
National World War I Museum at Liberty Memorial, KANSAS CITY, MO (1, French Army WWI combat veteran)
Brent Mullins Jeep Parts, COLLEGE STATION, TX (1)

FT-17 with M1917 turret:
US Army Ordnance Museum, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD (1 - "K-K-K-Katy;" supposedly the French sample given to the US for licensed production - in storage)

"FT-18"s:
Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, FORT KNOX, KY (2, including 1 on display)

M1917s:
Military Vehicle Technology Foundation, PORTOLA VALLEY, CA (1)
Military Museum of Southern New England, DANBURY, CT (1)
Miller Park, BLOOMINGTON, IL (1)
1st Division Museum at Catigny, WHEATON, IL (1 - US M1917 given to Canada & later recovered)
Historical Military Armor Museum, ANDERSON, IN (1)
Ropkey Armor Museum, CRAWFORDSVILLE, IN (1 - infamous Alexandria / Nitro example)
Private owner, KANSAS CITY, KS (1)
Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, FORT KNOX, KY (1)
US Army Ordnance Museum, ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD (1 - pilot M1917 - owned by Smithsonian / USMC)
Private owner, MISSOULA, MT (1)
VFW Post 2290, MANVILLE, NJ (1)
Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, RHINEBECK, NY (1)
West Point Museum, WEST POINT, NY (1)
Pennsylvania Military Museum, BOALSBURG, PA (1)
American Armored Foundation (AAF) Tank Museum, DANVILLE, VA (1)
Virginia War Museum, NEWPORT NEWS, VA (1)
Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles (VMMV), NOKESVILLE, VA (1)

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- MarkHolloway
So is this an FT-17? This is the picture that got my curiosity going Smile



This one "should" be an M1917, if its the one in Wheaton, IL... For one, Hayes Otoupalik says it is, and that it was assembled from parts found in Canada in the 1990s. Which would make sense as a number of M1917s (and Mk VIII Liberty tanks) were given to Canada to start off its armored force in 1939.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- armyjunk2
No muffler on this side I believe would make this a French Renault FT17..


The muffler is missing on that tank, but you can still see the rear part of it on the side of the tank.. so this is confirmed to be an M1917.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Unknown M-1917 6-ton tank

- Neil_Baumgardner
- the_shadock
- TrevorLarkum
Also, the French version had multi-part wooden front wheels (with an obvious ring of bolts) where the US ones had one-piece metal ones.


However, the wooden parts of the wheels were sometimes replaced by metal parts (because of the wood decay). But the French wheel has a very different design compared to the US one, and even with metal sheets replacing wood ones, it can be easily identified as French.

P-O


Yeah, I didnt think you could trust the wooden vs metal wheels aspect...

Neil


Here you can see an FT-17 wheel with wood sheets :





Compared to an FT-17 wheel with metal sheets :





Compared to the M1917 wheel, really typical of the tank :




_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum