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Tiger with some Oddities
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Tanklord
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:27 pm
Post subject: Tiger with some Oddities

I found this picture while looking for wallpapers for my desktop. I thought it was somewhat different from your normal Tiger pic. The commander appears to be an American armor officer. I don't know the meaning of the writing on the spare track on the front. Has anyone else seen this pic?

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

Tiger 712 of the s Pz-Abt 501 captured by US troops in Tunesia, North-Africa

After capture shipped to the Aberdeen proving grounds

And according the book "Tiger I on the western front" it is preserved in Germany

You can find it in the surving Tiger tanks file

Michel

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

Assuming Michel is right then it's this one:

preservedtanks.com/Pro...niqueID=73

- that's very interesting, I hadn't made the connection before.

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

I think that this Tiger is currently with Kevin Wheatcroft :

http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5536&highlight=tiger+aberdeen

P-O

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

Ahhhh yes, the infamous 'CUTAWAY' Tiger 1 !!

I have a photo of it doing manuevering tests at APG. Guess I need to dig that up.

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piney
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

It's definitely the Aberdeen tiger, The small welded on patch ahead of the turret number confirms it, AFAIK it is still in England with Wheatcroft

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piney
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

just as a little tidbit about this Tiger, My understanding was that the loan to Germany was to be of a finite length in return for the restoration, in so far as was possible, of the Tiger. They basically gave it auperficial cleaning and fresh paint and nothing else. There was then an agreement made with Mr.Wheatcroft that he could house it and do such restoration as possible in return for the rights to use the Tiger as a "pilot" model so to speak to produce a limited number of full size replicas. Now the fun starts, I was on one of Bob Smart's tours a couple of years ago and one of the other visitors there at the time was a former officer of her Majesty, and he recounted this to us. Once Mr. Wheatcroft had obtained official temporary rights to the Tiger, along with the Marder and PZ.II from Aberdeen that had also been on loan to the German museums, the Germans refused to release them claiming that they were German property. Mr. Wheatcroft then apparently called in a few favors and the unit this officer was attached to was sent to the museum with tank transporters and a small military force. The germans again refused and the British officer in charge said "We took this tank in 1945 and we are going to take it again now!". They left with the tanks

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Tanklord
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

Gentlemen, I appreciate all the information. You are one well informed group!

I guess I will dive into the Internet pool and see what else I can find. Have a good day!

PS, what about the writing on the spare tracks? Wink

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

Great story Piney!
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

- the_shadock
I think that this Tiger is currently with Kevin Wheatcroft :

http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5536&highlight=tiger+aberdeen

P-O


Yes indeed, I've been looking into it since I posted that and found some updates, including your posts on the Axis History Forum:

forum.axishistory.com/...p?t=112174


I've updated PTC accordingly:

UID73: APG Tiger

- I think that's now officially the most complicated map on the website!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

It is my understanding that the story of this Tiger 1 and other associated vehicles is far from over. Their current location is still 'temporary holding' with possible long distance travel arrangements yet to be finalized.

I had heard a slightly different spin to the story, beginning with an unauthorized "LOAN" deal and then an unknown third party attempted to sell the Tiger to a 'private collector' when it was intercepted....

Perhaps some day the truth will come to light, either way it might make for a real interesting movie plot......

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Don
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

- piney
Now the fun starts, I was on one of Bob Smart's tours a couple of years ago and one of the other visitors there at the time was a former officer of her Majesty, and he recounted this to us. Once Mr. Wheatcroft had obtained official temporary rights to the Tiger, along with the Marder and PZ.II from Aberdeen that had also been on loan to the German museums, the Germans refused to release them claiming that they were German property. Mr. Wheatcroft then apparently called in a few favors and the unit this officer was attached to was sent to the museum with tank transporters and a small military force. The germans again refused and the British officer in charge said "We took this tank in 1945 and we are going to take it again now!". They left with the tanks


This indeed is an good story, however some parts may be an little over the top Wink
Becuase even an former officer of her Majesty, will get trouble if he is traveling with an military party across the German highway without permission of the German authorities
No matter if was send by Mr. Wheatcroft or not

It is a long travel from the Sinsheim Museum back to the UK, with an couple of tank transporters
Especialy if one is loaded with an 55ton tank, that is way above the German road regulation of 40ton GVW (truck with load)

Michel

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

- Tanklord
what about the writing on the spare tracks


I tried to read it, however I cann't the letters are to fuzzy

Also I'm not even sure the text is German
I can not remember seeing an lot of German tanks with name's or similar onto them, especialy on the spare track's

Painting name's was more an thing for US and UK soldiers I think

This is probably also the only picture where you can see the spare tiger & Pz IV tracks fitted to the front plate
I found an picture after arriving of the tank at Aberdeen where only the bracket of the Pz IV track between the MG and driver vision port is still there

Michel

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piney
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:58 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

An excellent book on this specific tiger is

"Tiger Without A Home: The United States Army Ordnance Museum’s Panzerkampfwagen VI, Ausfuhrung H1 - Richard Cox, US Ordnance Corps Foundation Inc. Pubs, Maryland, 1995. [ISBN: 0-9644359-1-8]. S/C 102pp.
A very handy little book for all things Tiger I in North Africa, and in particular the APG Early Tiger. Very well researched info on allocation, paint and markings of 501 and 504 as well a technical evaluation and study of the APG vehicles fate. Lots of good wartime and museum shots with good details."

may be hard to find however, I got my copy from the horse's mouth so to speak, The ordnance gift shop on one of Bob Smart's tours

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger with some Oddities

*bump* from Discovery Channel thread.

- TrevorLarkum
piney, could I use your photo's at PTC?

UID73: APG Tiger


Those pics would fill the gap in the timeline very nicely.

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