±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 604
Total: 604
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Member Screenshots
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: News Archive
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: CPGlang
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Your Account
43: Photo Gallery
44: CPGlang
45: Search
46: News
47: Community Forums
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: CPGlang
51: Home
52: Statistics
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Photo Gallery
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Statistics
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Downloads
81: Community Forums
82: Member Screenshots
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: CPGlang
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Downloads
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Downloads
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Photo Gallery
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Downloads
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Downloads
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Member Screenshots
113: Community Forums
114: CPGlang
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: CPGlang
120: Downloads
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Your Account
124: Photo Gallery
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Your Account
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Your Account
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Home
142: Downloads
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Downloads
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Downloads
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Member Screenshots
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Downloads
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: News Archive
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Member Screenshots
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Downloads
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Your Account
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Home
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Downloads
239: Downloads
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: CPGlang
261: Photo Gallery
262: Community Forums
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: News Archive
270: Community Forums
271: Downloads
272: Community Forums
273: CPGlang
274: CPGlang
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Downloads
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Photo Gallery
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: CPGlang
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Statistics
316: Community Forums
317: Downloads
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Statistics
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Home
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Member Screenshots
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Statistics
358: Community Forums
359: Home
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: CPGlang
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Member Screenshots
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: Home
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: CPGlang
382: Photo Gallery
383: Your Account
384: Home
385: Home
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Photo Gallery
398: News Archive
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Member Screenshots
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: News Archive
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Downloads
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Photo Gallery
426: Photo Gallery
427: Downloads
428: Photo Gallery
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: CPGlang
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Photo Gallery
436: CPGlang
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Downloads
440: Photo Gallery
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Statistics
446: Home
447: News Archive
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Home
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Your Account
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: News Archive
479: Photo Gallery
480: Photo Gallery
481: Photo Gallery
482: Downloads
483: CPGlang
484: Home
485: Home
486: Member Screenshots
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Your Account
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Downloads
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Community Forums
507: Your Account
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Photo Gallery
513: Home
514: Downloads
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Community Forums
519: Home
520: Community Forums
521: CPGlang
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Member Screenshots
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Photo Gallery
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Your Account
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Statistics
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Downloads
544: Photo Gallery
545: Photo Gallery
546: Photo Gallery
547: Your Account
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Your Account
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Home
567: Photo Gallery
568: Home
569: Home
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Member Screenshots
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Home
582: Community Forums
583: Statistics
584: Downloads
585: Home
586: Downloads
587: CPGlang
588: Photo Gallery
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Downloads
600: Downloads
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Home
604: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:56 pm
Post subject: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Camp Mabry? Restored and on display?

www.msc.navy.mil/seali...r/tank.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

I have no info on it - I'll list it as stored?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:10 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Indulge me the moral high ground, but how arrogant of any visiting military force to pillage a national artifact! Whatever is in the country, belongs to that country - "abandoned" or not. There is no detail in the story about where the tank was found. Whoever left it there, did so for reasons unknown to the finders.
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:26 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

First off, if its a US tank, it may still technically be US property - or at the least US approval is necessary for its transfer (re-export) to any other military forces than the original end-user. I highly suspect "Yugoslavia" did not request its transfer to the Bosnian Serb forces and were technically in violation of the original MDAP agreement...

Secondly there's the issue of the rights accorded to IFOR, and then SFOR, under the Dayton Agreement - which were rather wide-ranging. If not full occupying power rights, as fell to the OIF forces in Iraq for example...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:37 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

I think the problem lies in the 'misreported' article. I don't think it was just taken.

Having served in Bosnia during SFOR 5 (1999), I know of at least two tank destroyers that came out of Bosnia, and there was never an official mention of the facts of the deal. The US paid (literally) for the transfer of the Tank Destroyers.

The vehicles were part of the Bosnian Serb stored equipment that was considered 'excess' and the Bosnian Govt was more than happy to be rid of them. It meant that they were no longer the responsibility of the RS to be stored or accounted for and it was a gesture that the RS was attempting to 'disarm' in the face of the Dayton Accords.

The M47 looks to be in excellent condition, and I seriously doubt it was anything close to having been abandoned and sitting 'in the bushes'. More likely 'donated' by the local Weapon Storage site commander for a modest fee that perhaps went to pay the local soldiers.

I was at Camp Demi, south of Camp McGovern and I doubt any tanks were overlooked in that area (located near Brcko, a seriously contested area along the Zone Of Seperation or ZOS.)

JMHO
Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:44 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Indulge me the moral high ground, but how arrogant of any visiting military force to pillage a national artifact! Whatever is in the country, belongs to that country - "abandoned" or not.


Ok, let me get this straight, you're going to rag on the U.S. for intervening in a country that was killing and raping it's own population and some how we are the bad guys for taking back something that belonged to the U.S. to begin with? I would hardly consider a M47 LOANED to them as a national artifact. They have several "national artifacts" in the Great White North that your military has brought back from around the world. How arrogant is that? You have a unique perspective on the world.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

I'm sorry I asked in the first place. Rolling Eyes

The overall tone that this thread has assumed is not a welcome one. FYI, "Maple_Leaf_Eh", the "moral high ground" is not being ceded to anybody, least of all to someone who's post was unnecessarily confrontational.

I suggest all parties desist unless they have documentation to offer that further enlightens the issue. Thus far, Neil and especially Don have done the best job of making the situation more clear.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:19 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Any ideas about the user of this M47? The ''same'' camo pattern I have seen on M18s of the Vojska Federacia (VF) of BIH in 2003. These vehicles had r/ns ending with a B or a C (for example VF-0014B). IIRC the last letter indicated if it was a Bosnian or Bosnian/Croat unit.

Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- L.Delsing
Any ideas about the user of this M47? The ''same'' camo pattern I have seen on M18s of the Vojska Federacia (VF) of BIH in 2003. These vehicles had r/ns ending with a B or a C (for example VF-0014B). IIRC the last letter indicated if it was a Bosnian or Bosnian/Croat unit.



Lesley,
Is THAT what the M18 is?! I got that pic from somewhere myself, cropped, darkened and used as my desktop for years. I thought it was from the Ardennes or something. Just created my own reality for the context.

Regards,
Doug
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:42 am
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

It is taken near Glamoc (BiH) in the vicinity of grid N44 04.453 E016 49.620. The camp NE of that grid we had parked our tanks and the M18, which were used as hard target were parked in the vicinity of the grid. The picture is taken from the turret of my tank when driving to the range. It was ''horizontal effect snow'' at that moment.

It looked like the ardennes, driving in German tanks, mountainous terrain, cold, snow and shooting at the ''enemy'' which were the M18s Wink




Back to top
View user's profile
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Any ideas about the user of this M47?


As pointed out, it's not a M47 it's a M18. In the group of pictures the second one is a M36.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- tanker2010
Any ideas about the user of this M47?


As pointed out, it's not a M47 it's a M18. In the group of pictures the second one is a M36.


I think Lesley was asking about the user of the M47 at the start of this thread because it has a similar camo scheme to the M18 he shows in Bosnia.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

Yes, that is correct Trevor.

regards
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- Doug_Kibbey

I thought it was from the Ardennes or something. Just created my own reality for the context.

Regards,
Doug


Something like this..... Wink



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Did this M47 eventually reach it's destination...

- Dontos

Something like this..... Wink


Regards
Don


Don,
This, actually. On a black background, it's just chilling.
D.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum