±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 726
Total: 726
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Member Screenshots
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Your Account
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: CPGlang
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Downloads
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: CPGlang
46: Photo Gallery
47: CPGlang
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: CPGlang
56: Your Account
57: Photo Gallery
58: Community Forums
59: Statistics
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Downloads
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: CPGlang
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Photo Gallery
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: News
75: CPGlang
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Statistics
106: Photo Gallery
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Member Screenshots
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Downloads
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Photo Gallery
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: CPGlang
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Member Screenshots
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Member Screenshots
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Downloads
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Photo Gallery
201: Photo Gallery
202: CPGlang
203: Statistics
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Home
207: Photo Gallery
208: Photo Gallery
209: Home
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: CPGlang
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Member Screenshots
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Home
228: CPGlang
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Photo Gallery
233: Downloads
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Photo Gallery
242: CPGlang
243: Community Forums
244: Member Screenshots
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: CPGlang
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Downloads
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: CPGlang
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: News
303: Statistics
304: Home
305: Home
306: Home
307: Member Screenshots
308: Downloads
309: Community Forums
310: Photo Gallery
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Your Account
314: Home
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Your Account
318: Photo Gallery
319: Home
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: CPGlang
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: CPGlang
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Photo Gallery
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: Downloads
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Photo Gallery
360: Home
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Photo Gallery
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Photo Gallery
377: Photo Gallery
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Photo Gallery
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Downloads
407: Home
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Photo Gallery
414: Community Forums
415: Downloads
416: CPGlang
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Home
435: Community Forums
436: Home
437: Photo Gallery
438: Home
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: CPGlang
448: CPGlang
449: CPGlang
450: Downloads
451: Photo Gallery
452: Community Forums
453: Home
454: Downloads
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Home
460: Community Forums
461: Search
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Downloads
472: Photo Gallery
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Photo Gallery
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Home
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Photo Gallery
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: CPGlang
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Home
502: CPGlang
503: CPGlang
504: CPGlang
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Downloads
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Photo Gallery
530: News Archive
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: CPGlang
535: Home
536: Downloads
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Home
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Downloads
558: Photo Gallery
559: Photo Gallery
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Member Screenshots
573: Community Forums
574: CPGlang
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Home
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Photo Gallery
587: Member Screenshots
588: Downloads
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Home
593: Member Screenshots
594: Member Screenshots
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Home
599: Community Forums
600: Search
601: Home
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Your Account
605: Community Forums
606: Downloads
607: Community Forums
608: Community Forums
609: Home
610: Downloads
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Downloads
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Downloads
622: Home
623: Photo Gallery
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Photo Gallery
629: Community Forums
630: Home
631: Home
632: Community Forums
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Photo Gallery
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Home
646: CPGlang
647: Community Forums
648: Downloads
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Photo Gallery
652: Photo Gallery
653: CPGlang
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Home
658: Home
659: Community Forums
660: News Archive
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Photo Gallery
665: Photo Gallery
666: Home
667: Home
668: Community Forums
669: Home
670: Member Screenshots
671: Home
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Statistics
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Photo Gallery
689: Community Forums
690: Downloads
691: Community Forums
692: Downloads
693: Community Forums
694: Home
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: Photo Gallery
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Photo Gallery
704: Community Forums
705: Home
706: Downloads
707: Community Forums
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: CPGlang
712: Home
713: Community Forums
714: Statistics
715: Community Forums
716: Downloads
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Photo Gallery
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums
725: CPGlang
726: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID... :: Archived
A general meeting place for all pilots!
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Officer's Club

Topic Archived View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:45 am
Post subject: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

[img][/img]
This is a Cessna L19 Bird Dog (I believe). I am trying to find information out on this particular bird for a friend and this is my first stop on displaying this picture on as many mediums and sources as possible. I can't seem to find this bird listed on Joe Baughers site of aircraft serial numbers. Anyone have any other ideas where to search? I notice a small "Blackhorse" symbol at the top of the tail, similar to 11th ACR's. Anyone with clues can contact me via here or at my PM inbox.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I dunno about that specific plane, but I can tell you a few things about the crash Smile First, the crash was most likely caused by loss of directional control. Second, either the power was at idle or the engine had quit at impact, as noted by the props bent back. Third, a fire started after impact near the aft left side of the engine, and burnt it's way up the front left side of the cabin.

As for more information on that aircraft, the NTSB's website is always a good place to start, but it's busy or down right now...

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks for the info, Im having intenet problems myself, so I'll have to try the NTSB later.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- XcalibeR
Yeah, that was just me showing off from my Aviation Safety course :). But now I'm kind of interested in searching that specific crash. The NTSB doesn't have anything on it that I could find. Do you have any more information on the crash? When was it? where was it? where did you get the pics from?


There is no more specific information available to augment the pics, which came from me. Including where (other than Vietnam) or when. That happens when you have some 500 pics that are ~35 years old and you served in two widely separate military regions. It is unknown if there was hostile fire involved or just mechanical failure, that's why we're asking.
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide. I also doubt that the insignia relates to the 11th Cav as this is an Air Force bird, the insignia is incomplete, and prancing black horses are a common theme anyway.
O-1's of the latest variant, L-19e's, ceased production in 1962, so this is an old airframe even if the latest variety. Almost certainly, it was written off as a combat loss and pitched at the Long Binh boneyard with nothing of it surviving.

And that is all I know about 'dat.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
XcalibeR
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- Doug_Kibbey
For my money, the aircraft likely attempted to put down on the road and went wide.


That's probably not a bad guess. The steep bank and lack of a definate edge on the road suggests that it is, in fact, a road, not a runway. Also helping that idea is the drainage ditch in the background. It might be a bad picture or exposure, but it also looks like the road and drain are wet, which would help an already unstable plane into the ditch.

Also, after looking at those pics a bit more, I think I can justify myself a bit more on my previous information, and go a bit further. I'm pretty sure that the fire that occured in the engine started after the crash, as noted by the fact that it propogated up, instead of back. It might be possible, though, that there had been an engine fire, and the wind kept it inside the cowling until the aircraft crashed. Either way, it was a very hot fire to be able to scold and char the metal and deform the plastic of the windshield that much.

I am also pretty sure that the engine had in fact quit before touch down. Props that are bent back are almost always signs that the engine was at a low power setting when it hit. In this case, the slight bending of the right side prop versus the major deformation of the left side prop (closer to the camera) tells me that it was probably wind milling. The major fold in the left side prop was most likely caused when the plane went in the ditch, against those rocks.

A few other things to note. The wings and tail section look to have been mostly damaged by the impact, so I think we can rule out any mechanical fail of the airframe. The right cowling was probably also a casualty of the crash. Second, and on a different note, I noticed that in the back ground of the first image, there is a chapel, along with what looks to be either a VOR or Radar tower closer to the crash site. Both of these seem to point to the fact that it crashed right outside of a permanant air base. This is further supported by the fact that the fire on the aircraft was put out fairly quickly, becuase it didn't spread that far along the aircraft.

So where does that put us? Was the engine in fact failed, or was it idling for landing? If it was failed, what caused the failure? What started the fire? when did the fire start?

If I'm even close on those observations, then I could put forth one probable cause. Take it for what it's worth, cause it's most likely very wrong. Using the above information, I would take and gander at it and that perhaps the pilot, whether just after taking off or just arriving, noticed smoke coming into the cabin. To meet the emergency, he probably cut the fuel supply to the engine (to help control the fire), which would, of course, shut down the engine. Since he's so near a base, I would say he was trying to make a runway, decided he couldn't make it, tried for the road, and slid off the side. After crashing, the fire then propogated up the side of the plane while the fire squad got out there.

Makes for a good story, eh? Mr. Green

Don't take any of that story as a given. It is only what one college sophmore can come up with from looking at three old pictures. If you want to do a bit more research on the engine, the L-19 used a Continental O-470-11 engine. I think if there was a fuel line that goes along the left hand side of the engine, that would further support the findings I put forward.

I'm not fairing too well on finding any info on this crash on the web, so you might have to resort back to your own memory to try to figure out where and when this occured.

_________________


[TSF]Lt. Col. XcalibeR{5thF}
PG_Raptor
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:31 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
I research and documented an F-105D-31-RE that crashed here at Ft Irwin, 11 Feb 1964. No one knew anything till I found a partial serial number and tried looking for it on Joe Baughers web-site. He lists all miliatry planes built by serial number from 1921 to present. I could not find anything close. I'll be damned if I wont find out though. Doug showed me this picture and I thought I could find it within 10 minutes. The fact that I haven't has made me want to find it even more and I will. I have a contact that may be of some help, but it will probably take 2-3 weeks of research for him to find. But for free, I can't knock it.
Are we sure this is an L19? What is the differnece between it and an OE-1 and some of the other "Bird Dog" variations? Are those white phos rocket mounts under the wings that I see?


Jeff,
All L-19's were based on the Cessna 170. The L-19 designation seems to have been dropped officially after Korea and changed to O-1. But as a type, there were several models of "L-19", the last being the "e" model, as noted. You will see claims that L-19's were long gone by the '70's in VN (and correctly, out of the Army altogether by '74), but we know they were around....
A VNAF pilot made the only unarrested landing of one on the U.S.S Midway with no barrier with four members of his family in a well documented and filmed landing during the evacuation of Saigon in '75. Numerous pics can be found of this feat on the 'net.

The O-2 was the Cessna "Skymaster" or "push me/pull me" with the twin boom, and are more associated, now, with Vietnam, but the O-1 was very much still around.

If it helps, I have "Googled" the bejeezus out of that number and all variants of type designators to no effect yet, over the course of several years. Pounded all the websites featuring O-1's and L-19's too. Official records don't always tell the whole story...and neither do tail numbers...this is especially true of Vietnam (and that number is unlike anything I've seen on the usual L-19's with pics around).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

In my numerous "travels" via the internet to research Chuck Yeagers F-100F and that F105D that crashed here, I have made a few contacts that know "Wingy Thingys" and I plan to contact them tomorrow if my work computer is working, (much of Ft Irwins server was down today). I have now become officially infatuated with finding out the history on this airplane, even if it is only limited history. Besides, I've researched everything here at Irwin, I need a new challenge to occupy my down time. Besides, I told you I'd find out for you, what kind of friend would I be if I didn't follow through. I only posted it here first because I've found that sometimes the answers to questions, can sometimes be found close to home rather than searching far and wide, (like I might end up doing). Gotta run.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Thud68
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 369
Location: AZ USA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Back in 1988 I got curious about what happened to an F-105D I crewed at Korat RTAFB from Feb68 to Sep68. First I called the AMARC storage center at Davis-Monthan AFB here in Tucson. All they could tell me was that there records indicated it was not physically there, and that it had been involved in an accident while assigned to an Air Guard outfit in the DC area. They did provide me with this address for further info:
Department of the Air Force/ Headquarters Air Force Inspection and Safety Center/ Norton AFB, CA/ 92409-7001.
What I got from them was the crash package on that plane to included radio transcripts between Coast Guard, Pilot, and Tower during the incident. Even some pictures of parts brought up from the bottom of Chesepeake Bay. Pilot survived, plane didn't.
If you have the serial number or tail number and the date and location of the incident I would try the folks at Norton. Remember, my quest was in 1988 and things may have changed a bit. May also have been a small cost involved, with age CRS has set in ( can't remember s***).
Anywho, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
" Refuel my plane and load my guns"

Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
" The Devil of Rabaul"
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

OK, I admit I thought this would be easier than it has turned out to be. The Historical Freedom of Information Act Manager, Louie Alley at Kirtland AFB couldn't turn up anything on this bird. He was the one that helped me find records on F-105's and F-100's that were lost, and I didn't have pictures of them. However I'm on the trail! I have since contacted 16 other sources and hope for positive results soon, esspecially from one that wrote a detailed book on the Bird Dog's. I will keep you posted.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

One of my "sources" has contacted me about the airplane in the picture above. He is about 90% sure about the info he provided me. First, the plane was built in 1956, as one in a batch of 74 birds for that particular contract run, (serial numbers 56-4161 thru 56-4235). Not being able to see the final digit of the tail number, he has narrowed it be between 56-4180 and 56-4189. However in his "files" he shows that 180, 185, and 186 were NOT listed as being on the "Known Destroyed Birddog Lists". That narrows it to one of 7 serial numbers that are left. The plane was also built originally as an L-19E. He says the picture shows a USAF Tactical Air Support Squadron (TASS) aircraft, and these were called O-1E's by the Air Force.
The one thing he didn't say, was which TASS unit it was. I guess you'd have to look up area of operations for each unit and try to piece it together from that.
Hey "Thud 68" did you ever find out the ultimate demise of your bird? If not, tell me the tail number and I'll snoop around some.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Here is another bit of information found on this Bird Dog. I contacted the International Bird Dog Association and a number of its members for help. Below is one of the responses. I hope it helps somewhat. I may get more info and if I do, I'll post it here.

Jim, Ron, guys...
Looking at the photos, the last digit of the tail number is missing. The little logo at the top of the vertical may help track it down. Don't knmow what TASS used the little horsey... It's not Seahorses and not 1st Cav art because it's an Air Force E-model from the 1956 contract series that was built in 57: The number is 0 (of course over 10 years old airframe) plus the 6 from the '56 contract run plus the 4181 or 82, 83, 84, or 87, 88, 89. Only 4180, 4185 and 4186 are shown as not destroyed in service. All others are listed as destroyed. And only 80, 85 and 86 did not get the "Vietnam" modifications with the dual FM command set installations plus other radio mods. Those three may have remained Stateside - and that's why they're not shown as destroyed (see Minard's book, pp 208 and 216 for info; s/n range 23815 - 23826.) Several in that series got the self-sealing tanks and Geise gear, too. All mods were made under an Air Force modifications contract, so that seems to support AF ownership as does the use of the rotating beacon in a cup on the top of the cabin. As far as I know, only AF did that for visibility with the fast-movers. Too bad the last digit is missing in the photo of the tail.


If it was Air Force, that may explain why no joy in Army records.


Ron, since he contacted you, if any of this makes sense to you, do you want to pass this on to SFC Jeff Button?

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Doug, this is where that serial number for the Bird Dog falls into. Because the bird was over 10 years old/modified, it got a "0" as its first digit. The "6" is for the year (1956), and then the 418_ is the serial number. Thats why we were having problems finding it initially. My guess is that the bird in the picruee is either 4181, 82, 83, 84, 87, 88, or 89. Still don't know the unit though. See the excerpt below that I cut and paste from Joe Baughers site;

56-4161/4235 Cessna L-19E Bird Dog
4173 and 4174 transferred to USN as OE-1 BuNo 144663/144664.
Some sold to Thailand.
Redesignated O-1E in 1962.
4164 to N6234
4208 on display at Commado Air Park, Hurlburt Field, FL in 1973
4211 to Thai AF
4215 to Thai AF

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Cessna L19 Bird Dog ID...

Thanks, Jeff...
I thought it was pretty clear this was an Air Force plane from the color and side markings (All Army one's I've seen from this ere were OD green).

No pic I'm in possession of (I have four) show any greater detail that would be useful in the ID. Pity about the tail number, especially. Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Revive this topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Officer's Club
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next

Archive Revive
Username:
This is an archived topic - your reply will not be appended here.
Instead, a new topic will be generated in the active forum.
The new topic will provide a reference link to this archived topic.