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Serial Number Guide...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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JiriTintera
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Location: Prague, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

New exhibit of Military Technical museum Lesany LT vz. 35 (Light Tank Model 1935) acquired by kindly support of US Government and US Armed Forces from Ground Ordnance Museum Aberdeen was not in fact produced by Skoda Pilsen!

Ceskomoravská Kolben - Danek (CKD) built, according to contract signed between Skoda Pilsen and CKD, 50% of all LT vz. 35 for Czechoslovak Army.

Czechoslovak Army received this particular armoured vehicle serial number 10112 in 1937 and listed her under 13.962 military register number.


Aberdeen before reconstruction.




Military Museum Prague - Zizkov

Resources
forum.valka.cz/viewtop...799#212799
forum.valka.cz/viewtop...701#216701
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Thanks for the update. She was one of my favorites when I led tours at Aberdeen especially after she went through refurb. I'm glad she has a good home but I miss her when I'm giving tours Confused

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

- JiriTintera
New exhibit of Military Technical museum Lesany LT vz. 35 (Light Tank Model 1935) acquired by kindly support of US Government and US Armed Forces from Ground Ordnance Museum Aberdeen was not in fact produced by Skoda Pilsen!

Ceskomoravská Kolben - Danek (CKD) built, according to contract signed between Skoda Pilsen and CKD, 50% of all LT vz. 35 for Czechoslovak Army.

Czechoslovak Army received this particular armoured vehicle serial number 10112 in 1937 and listed her under 13.962 military register number.

Resources
forum.valka.cz/viewtop...799#212799
forum.valka.cz/viewtop...701#216701


that confirms what Palic said :
"the Serial Number is 10112, the tank was produced by CKD Prague. The original Czechoslovak military registration number was 13.962. The tank was delivered to the CZ Army in 1937, and after the German occupation this vehicle (minus its turret) continued its operational service in the WH as a Mörsezugmittel 35(t). After some unknown damages, this vehicle was sent to Skoda Pilsen to be repaired and remained there until the liberation of Czechoslovakia (it was not recovered from the Hillersleben Proving Ground, contrary to what the Aberdeen museum said). This vehicle was then equipped with a turret and repaired on request of the US HQ, and then shipped to the USA for tests of the pneumatic and steering system"

P-O

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BB-61
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Location: Yuma, AZ
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:10 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

M60 serial number question.

I was looking at the M60A0 at the Yuma Proving Groung and the M60A3 at the VFW post on Hwy US-95 and noticed that both tanks have a number welded into the rear left hull under the tail light. The number on the YPG tank matches the tank serial number but the VFW tank numbers do not match.
Is this some form of ID they used at one time before stamping the serial numbers? The YPG tank also has another number welded under the serial#. What was this number for(DT444)?
I've enclosed a couple of photos of where the welds are.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

BB-61,

With the YPG M60, it's just coincidence that the CF number ( the "C" is hidden behind the rubber flap of the sand shield) matches the SN. I've seen these weld numbers on every version of M60 and Later M48 hulls. With the M60A0 versions, the weld numbers follow the SN pretty closely up to around SN 1332 from the examples I've documented. After that the numbers seem to start over and change the prefix letters, but I've seen low SN tanks with CG and CF so I'm inclined to believe they are the hull manufacturer marks. The bottom set of numbers I've seen DT and CT prefixes. The number is usually different from the top but only off by a few, on rare occasion being the same as the top. Here are two examples:

SN 47

SN 70

On occasion the top or both numbers will hidden by the tail lamp housing when welded on.

Hidden

The M60A1, A2 and A3 numbers are no where close to the SN's, most having only one set. I'm convinced these numbers were welded on by the foundry that produced them. Some hulls were cast as one piece, others in multiple sections and then welded together (depending on which foundry made them). Both then had the lifting eyes and other major fittings welded on before shipment to the Detroit assembly line. I figure the numbers were added before final shipment. Finding out the truth can be quite maddening, since none of these plants are in business anymore, with maybe the exception of Blaw-Knox, and I doubt they still use the foundries that made M60 hulls and Turrets.

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BB-61
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:36 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Joe,

Thanks for the info. I didn't even notice the other letters hidden behind the rubber flaps.

A couple of more quick questions if I may?
Is there a list of foundries that made the M60 hulls?
I never noticed any hulls being welded together, was this practice done alot? If so can you see this on the hulls it was done on?

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BB-61
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:44 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

sorry for the duplicate msg.

BB-61


Last edited by BB-61 on Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:24 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

BB-61,

Is there a list of foundries that made the M60 hulls?


Here are the foundries that made hulls and turrets for M60 tanks.

General Steel Castings Corporation, Eddystone Pennsylvania & Granite City Illinois.

"G" inside a Shield. They made both Hull and Turret Castings for M60, M60A1, and M60A2. Any M60A3 with these marks are rebuilt from A1. The hulls made by them were one piece, or as close as you can get to it since the floor plates were welded in. They also used the prefix "GC" with the casting series number.

Continental Foundry and Machine Company, East Chicago Indiana.
Continental Foundry and Machine Company, Wheeling West Virginia.
Continental Foundry and Machine Company, Carapolis Pennsylvania.

"C", "P", or "W" inside a "C". Continental made the majority of the Hull and Turret Castings from their three foundries. These hulls were cast in separate sections and welded together. The sectional hulls can be ID'd by a vertical weld seam along the side. After 1974 the rear hull was cast in two pieces and can be ID'd by the vertical weld seam bisecting the rear below the grill doors. Blaw Knox eventually owned Continental but they retained the same cast ID's. On occasion some of these sectional hulls will use castings from more than one of Continental foundries.

Union Steel Castings, a Division of Blaw Knox, Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.

Keystone with "U" inside. Turret Castings only to my knowledge.

Pittsburgh Steel Foundry Corporation (PSF), Glassport Pennsylvania.

Circle with a "P" inside an upside down star. This mark is found on early M60A1 turrets. They also made gun mantels and were marked with "PSF" instead of the star symbol.

There is much more to this but it could fill a chapter in a book and get pretty boring to most Rolling Eyes .

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BB-61
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:42 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Joe,

Thanks for the info. I never would have guessed the hulls could have been made in pieces and welded together. Something else to look for on an M60.

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Michel_Krauss
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Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Hi folks,

has some one an idea where to look for serial numbers on an M18 Hellcat ?

I have been looking for them on the vehicle (see the M18 in the Netherlands AFV reg thread)
However I could not find any, perhaps it will be easier if I know where to look

Michel

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sil3nt
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Location: Poznan, Poland
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Sturmgeschütz IV from Museum of the Armored Weapons Pozna?/Poland




( picture comes from: www.muzeumbronipancernej.pl )
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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

for the Sherman freaks, something to investigate

At the tanks in town event there was an M4A1 (76)W Sherman



At the right front towing eye was the following number: 21242
picture here; WARNING BIG !!! the last digit is almost faded away
i1015.photobucket.com/...970_sn.jpg

The interresting part is, if this is the serial number:
- it is at the front tow eye, and it is an M4A1; perhaps this was an possible location so no worries;
- this number in not known in the survivor list;
- the number does not match the serial number list, this number range is listed for M4A4's build at Chrysler

Who know's the anwser Confused

The painted on RN is 3084970, if some one would like to know

Michel

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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Michel

Sorry, I have to disappoint you. The M4A1(76)W should have a cast differential housing, one like n our Priest. At sometime in the past they did swap the diff with one from a M4A4. The serialnumber I have for that M4A1 is SN 52373.

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Michel_Krauss
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

Well I'm not disappointed Crying or Very sad

Just as I thought I understand the serial number system, it actualy does not work

I will get over it .... some how Mr. Green

It also makes it very hard to indentify vehicle's from the serial number

Michel

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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Serial Number Guide...

[quote=
It also makes it very hard to indentify vehicle's from the serial number

Michel[/quote]

Truthfully, the only really reliable way is the manufacturer's data plate inside near the driver's position. If the plate is the original, then that is the 'final' answer. If not? Well then you are no better or worse off than before!

Chuck

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