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M5 for Toadman
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:33 am
Post subject: M5 for Toadman


This is the M5 Stuart that sits at the 4th ID museum. I didn't realize that the M5's had two V-8 engines in the back. The plaque says it has Cadillac engines, but I swear there was the Chrysler "star" symbol cast into the engine block. I was able to stick the camera in through a firing port and got a picture of the breech. I took a 3 foot ladder with me and when I stood on it to see the top of the turret, I noticed the plexiglass that allowed light to the inside of the tank.

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Cloudy
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Are you sure that that top of the turret shot is from the M5A1? The hatches and turret shape look like an earlier model.
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:14 am
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

- Cloudy
Are you sure that that top of the turret shot is from the M5A1? The hatches and turret shape look like an earlier model.


It's probably the top of the M3A1 seen in this post: www.com-central.net/in...amp;t=4555

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

BTW, this has been reported to be a former Portuguese army M5A1 Stuart.

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Sorry, you're right, that is the M3A1 turret top. I thought I took a picture of the top of each turret but I cant find the M5's. That shot of the breech is also from the M3A1 then. I hate messing up like that.

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Here's some info on the Ft. Hood Stuarts as posted by Joe DeMarco on the Yahoo G103 Stuart group:

"Chris, please thank Jeff for posting the pix! He captured the serial number of the M5A1. Peter Ford published a list in Army Motors # 47 of the 90 M5A1s bought by Canada in 1946. That one's on there: S/N 6306 / USA 3049418. That indicates it was built by Cadillac-Detroit in April, 1944. It probably came to Hood by way of Portugal/ SECO, but someone once posted a photo of it where it had a Canadian DND Number painted on.

The M3 with the Japanese markings is probably the earliest one at Ft Hood, judging by the way the drivers' doors are riveted on there.
The one with the welded sides but riveted rear end is probably an M3 Hybrid with a turret taken from an earlier M3. It's possible it could also have been one of the first M3A1s built. The serial number would tell, if it could be found. The USA number that's on there 30851, could be original but missing the last digit. If so the serial number would be in the range 5077 thru 5086.
Welding up the pistol ports on the turret sides seems like it was more of a Commonwealth practice, so maybe the one with USA 306923 came to them via Australia or South Africa? The reg. number is actually the one assigned to the M3A1 pilot at APG.

Joe"

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

- toadmanstankpictures
Here's some info on the Ft. Hood Stuarts as posted by Joe DeMarco on the Yahoo G103 Stuart group:

"Chris, please thank Jeff for posting the pix! He captured the serial number of the M5A1. Peter Ford published a list in Army Motors # 47 of the 90 M5A1s bought by Canada in 1946. That one's on there: S/N 6306 / USA 3049418. That indicates it was built by Cadillac-Detroit in April, 1944. It probably came to Hood by way of Portugal/ SECO, but someone once posted a photo of it where it had a Canadian DND Number painted on. "


Towards the end of WWII the Canadian Army like Stuarts with the turret removed as recce vehicles in place of wheeled armoured cars. Not surprisingly then that they would have ordered more for the postwar composition.
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68Barracuda
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

That looks like a Chrysler big block...distributor is in the right spot....maybe it was "robbed" out of an Ontos!

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

- toadmanstankpictures

Welding up the pistol ports on the turret sides seems like it was more of a Commonwealth practice, so maybe the one with USA 306923 came to them via Australia or South Africa? The reg. number is actually the one assigned to the M3A1 pilot at APG.
Joe"


Yeah, RN 306923 is the Stuart (painted as a British Honey) on Maryland Blvd at the entrance to APG...

Like Joe said, Hood must have just seen the RN in Hunnicutt and painted it on the Stuart... Even the Ordnance Museum has been guilty of that sin Wink

Neil
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:08 am
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman


Toadman, I did find some Canadian lettering on that M5! I know its hard to see in the picture, but I read it to be "DND, 78-625, A-183190". Any idea what these numbers tell us. This is the kind of information I love! When I was at Ft Eustis and asked to see the museum director, I was just about turned away. Whan I told them that their ACV on display was the last one in existance and who had served on it and with what unit along with some pictures I had found, the assistant researcher escorted me directly to the director and the curator. They were blown away that I knew what I did. I plan to do the same thing here. If they ignore me as I ask to volunteer time, then I'll tell them about their various vehicles and they may have second thoughts. I have found however that some museum personnel don't like have "errors" pointed out to them, (makes them look bad I guess) but they in general appriciate the effort.
As far as thanking me for posting the pictures here, I feel I should be thanking this site for giving me an outlet for my new found hobby and interest. Compared to almost everyone on here, I'm the new kid on the block! I learn something just about every time I post on here. I was worried that maybe I was "over-doing it" with my posts and pictures, I hope thats not the case. Thanks.

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Great find! I'll relay this info to the Yahoo Stuart group to see if anyone knows what the numbers mean. It's also quite possible that someone here will know too.

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Tanklord
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Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Jeff, keep on posting! I believe I speak for a lot of the guys when I say your posts are educational and artistically pleasing (think thats how it is spelled). Got one question for you: What is your current rank? I think the SFC in your name may be a little outdated.

I served in 5th Mech and 2nd AD as a 12B (Armor Officer)

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:09 am
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Thanks Tanklord, (cool name) I'm currently a Sergeant First Class, but am the "Provisional" Sergeant Major for the 49th MCB while the CSM is deployed for the next year. I'm glad I can "educate" people with my posts, but I'm the one that learns the most by reading what people reply to my posts.

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SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
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Cloudy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:51 am
Post subject: Re: M5 for Toadman

Keep on posting Jeff! It's too bad you didn't have a piece of sandpaper handy for those numbers Smile I'll never forget an M5 that I saw in a scrapyard in the very early 1970's. I made my father stop several times and I sketched it. It was still in it's original paint with nickname and markings but missing engines. When I went back when I was a bit older, they had repainted it red white & blue in a fit of patriotism and there wasn't anything I could see of the original paint...
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