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buglerbilly · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 147

These are official images from the Defence Depts website...........

www.defence.gov.au/med...061208.cfm

The next lot are mostly ASLAV including the APC version complete with new Protector RWS and .50cal (interesting shot in one showing the trooper firing the RWS manually, boy is he exposed!)..............

www.defence.gov.au/med...61211b.cfm

Good shot of the first trial engine change in-country...........

More to follow as we get them...............

Regards,

BUG

David_Clark · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Mar 16, 2006 Posts: 36

BUG

Notice that the red skippies are obscured with good old pucka mud.

David

buglerbilly · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 147

Ain't too much mud this time of year, but yeah I know what you mean! Cool

The "interesting" thing is what is going to happen with the Leopard 1's?

Most likely end up on the scrap heap............ Rolling Eyes

The Australian Army is going to need AVLB's and possibly other such, so small Wolverine and Grizzly buys would still seem likely.

There are senior DMO and the Defence Minister visiting Holland right now, so expect an announcement real soon on more Bushmasters for the Dutch (up to 100?) plus the Army getting the 18 x surplus PzH2000 from the Dutch in some form of counter trade deal...........watch this space as the saying goes!

The deal will be great news for both Armies so long as it proceeds without delay.............

Regards,

BUG

PS: I forgot to add that the 18 x PzH2000 will be insufficient numbers for the Army if one includes Training and such like, so another buy of possibly 6-12 SPG's is going to be needed.

Neil_Baumgardner

LOL... That would require a startup of the Wolverine and Grizzly production lines, which I would think would be prohibitively expensive. Unless the Aussies decide to buy the dozen or so Wolverine bridge-layers that exist at Fort Hood and the 2 Grizzly prototypes - have to pull one off the concrete pads at the Ordnance Museum and the other from the Engineer Museum...

Now the Marine Corps' Abrams assault breacher (ie a much cheaper version of the Grizzly), that might be doable...

While its not the ideal solution, the US Army has been making do with the older AVLBs...

Neil

bsmart

Towards the end of the M-60s life didn't they modify some into AVLBs?

Seems to me a similar effort may be needed using older M1 chassis. Those old AVLBs won't last forever and I believe there are a fair amount of older M1 chassis sitting around. Maybe making a 'universal' base chassis mod that could be outfitted as an AVLB/ARV/ENG vehicle. It might not be the optimal solution for each of the needs but combining features where possible to be able to move all these needs up to an M1 base vehicle seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Lets see

1) modify the front hull to create a crew compartment similar to an M88
2) Provide udgraded hydraulics, blade and jib/crane mounting points.
3) Provide wiring and mountpoints for engineering/maintenance tools, equipment, 'devices'
3) design the above so that the AVLB launching gear could be connected to the systems and use the same mounting/strongpoints with minimal changes to the base vehicle

JimWeb

According to my information an australian army team recently visited Sabiex in Belgium. For those who aren't familiar with this company they specialise in turning surplus tank chassis into arv, bridgelayers etc...

Cool

Neil_Baumgardner

All of the current AVLBs are M60-based AFAIK. With regard to an Abrams AVLB - money, money, money...

That being said, I wouldnt be surprised if we see some of the Aussie Leo 1s converted to AVLBs... Has Sabiex done that specific conversion before?

Neil

Joe_D

Hi everyone, back for now.
Yes, money, money, money. But the Grizzley was DOA mostly because our poor Engineers tend to be on the bottom of the heap after Infantry, Armor and Artillery. They hung on to the M728 (CEV) as long as possible and never got a replacement for it. Korea was the last hold out until they finally were turned in. They still maintained a bunch of them along with M60A3 Blade tanks at Won-Ju as late as OCT 2000. Kind of "Break Glass In Case of War" thing. The Wolverine got a little further but that was because it was going to Fort Hood units and was part of the big Force 21 change. Only problem was Hood was the only folks to get the Force 21 equipment. The rest of us re-organized with less but never got the high speed stuff to compensate for the loss. It's all in the past now with what's going on.
BTW Bob, A lot of AVLB's were made of old hulls in the 80's. Rock Island Arsenal initially made them with new M60A1 hulls from Detroit but Anniston did the later ones with the used A2 hull's. The Wolverines and the Grizzly's were both made from old M1 hulls. Just like the M1A2 SEP's are. Everything old is new again. If the Australians want Wolverines it's just a matter of getting the old M1 hulls and converting them. But if they already have a Leopard Bridgelayer why do it. All you need to do is up grade the bridge weight capability itself like we did with the M60. Much Much cheaper. Besides, Leo's don't burn near as much fuel.

Joe D

bsmart

It seems to me that eventually you would want to clean up the supply system and get all the parts for the old chassis out of the system. Is it worth keeping the infrastructure in place to support the drivetrain and other parts that are unique to those vehicles.

Neil_Baumgardner

Yes, its a typical problem with procurement. New vehicles cost a lot up front, but maybe (not always, hard to tell sometimes) less down the road in support costs. Old vehicles probably have higher support costs. But the problem is either you have the "start up" cash for the new vehicles or you dont. If you dont, you just have to put up with the support costs.

Neil

Dontos

Found this quite interesting....

Don

bsmart

Looks like a quick change handle??

buglerbilly · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 147

Array:

LOL... That would require a startup of the Wolverine and Grizzly production lines, which I would think would be prohibitively expensive. Unless the Aussies decide to buy the dozen or so Wolverine bridge-layers that exist at Fort Hood and the 2 Grizzly prototypes - have to pull one off the concrete pads at the Ordnance Museum and the other from the Engineer Museum...

Yup THAT sure is gonna be a problem! Mr. Green

We have a small number of LEO AVLB's but with unsuitable bridges. I would suppose that a buy of latest LEGUAN bridges could easily overcome this?

That still leaves the question of what happens with the CEV aspect and this where Jim's talk about SABIEX may come in? As I said above, we'll get sweet bugga all for the old Leopard 1 MBT's.............

Personally, for longer-term US needs, I would have thought re-engining older M1's with the German Diesel engines ala proposals in earlier years, could be a smart move for BridgeLayers and CEV's?

Interesting days for the Australian Army.............. Wink

All we need now is an IFV...........more artillery.........120mm self-propelled mortars..........GBAD systems...........more Bushmasters (another 100 or so have been just ordered in the last few days!)..........more ASLAV's.............more of everything! Mr. Green

Neil_Baumgardner

Well, maybe not the complete "CEV" package, but there is the Marine Corps assault breacher.

hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mi...0(ABV).pdf

Neil

JimWeb

Neil_Baumgardner wrote:

That being said, I wouldnt be surprised if we see some of the Aussie Leo 1s converted to AVLBs... Has Sabiex done that specific conversion before? Neil

Yes but I suspect they would just fit one of their generic ARV or bridgelayer installations on top of a couple of those 20 spare M1 the aussies bought...

Cool