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Garry_Redmon · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

Changes have been made to the Armor for the Ages web site that reflect the changes in the museum as it becomes the General George Patton Museum tomorrow. While the basic format is the same, the Museum Photo Tour, Research page and Vehicle List page have been deleted. There are other wording changes throughout the site, but the basic message is still there. One addition to the web site is the General George Patton Museum Overview and Future Plans page that hopefully present the immediate changes and what the future holds for the museum.

Armor for the Ages will continue to cover anything the museum volunteers are involved in and the changes in the new museum as its grows.

armorfortheages.com/

Garry

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

- Dontos

Here are a couple I took a week or so ago.

...

Regards
Don

Photo's added and text updated, thanks:

Unique ID 1312: Fort Knox T43

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- JWB2

- Dontos

I noticed a sign,....."NO TOURING, FT KNOX IS A CLOSED POST!".

Who do these people think think they are. And where do they think their paychecks come from.???

Sorry, I had to rant a bit.

It's simple, really. The excuse is "Force Protection". There are US Military personnel and families on that post, so anything that can be explained as for their protection is virtually irrefutable. Bad people mix with 'the American public', so the public is bad (quite aside from the blatant we-are-better-than-that-rabble-ism that pervades the ranks of government/military employees).

Among many government/military employees (similar to UN employees of all stripes) the fastest way to lose your job is to make a decision of any type. Simple rules are simple to explain and enforce, and less likely to require judgment or decisions during enforcement. Since these measures are implemented by government employees who already have all the access they need, there is no need to consider the desires of the public. The result is rules that exclude all except the privileged, and that brook no dispute of any kind. It has always been so, particularly where anything to do with the military is concerned.

Chuck
(who has become cynical in 30+ years of association with the military and it's civilian support force)

[Edit: To prevent the idea that I think ALL government/military civilian employees are like this...they are not. These are generalized statements, and anyone who bucks the trend is to be applauded. Those people will also be pressured by the weight of the entire system to conform to it's automaton norms...]

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

I've just added the last of the M41s in my Fort Knox list (I hadn't got to it before my holiday):

Unique ID 1317: M41 on Post

When I saw it, it was outside Humpick Hall beside Old Ironsides Avenue.

- Dontos

As for M41A3's, there is the one in Stithton Traffic Circle:

Regards
Don

Given our previous discussions about the Chaffee Avenue M24 moving to Chaffee Gate I'm confident that this M41 on Stithton is the same as the one I saw on Old Ironsides (cast muzzle brake, MG on top, etc.) so I've added your photo's to its profile page and updated the text - thanks.

The only thing is, my notes have it as an M41A1 rather than M41A3. I understand the difference primarily comes down to the engine, and I'm not aware of any distinguishing marks. Anyway, I've ordered Hunnicutt's Sheridan book (and the Osprey US Light Tanks book) so I can learn up on this issue, and M41s in general (including Neil's comment about the museum's M41A3 actually being an T41E1, which I haven't forgotten).

JWB2 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 199

- Dontos

I noticed a sign,....."NO TOURING, FT KNOX IS A CLOSED POST!".

Who do these people think think they are. And where do they think their paychecks come from.??? Evil or Very Mad

Sorry, I had to rant a bit.

Dontos · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

Trevor

Luckily the museum does have a public access entrance so visitors are always welcome.

As for getting onpost to see the many historic sites, I am always (usually...) able to host and act as a tour guide. I see this as one of the important aspects to being a Museum Volunteer.

Ask The Vagabonds, Tumbleweed, Doug, Neil, and a bunch of others who I have had the honor of escorting, My tours don't suck, too bad.....ha ha ha

BUT don't ask Bob....(!?) I sort of 'no showed' his visit, but that was 'Uncle Sams' fault.....

Anyway, I try to accommidate as much as possible.
Regards
Don

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

- Dontos

Trevor
As for the article,......'Rebranding' !?, thats revisionism at its worst.....

Yesterday while getting my new vehicle on-post registration sticker at the 'Welcome Center' at Chaffee Gate (aka Bullion Blvd entrance...) I noticed a sign,....."NO TOURING, FT KNOX IS A CLOSED POST!".

Sounds like they're not really interested in 'welcoming the neighbors' as is mentioned in the article. (!?)

Regards
Don

It is a sad state of affairs, particularly the 'closed post' situation. When I visited in 1983 I was 18 and spent a week or so just walking around the base exploring and taking photographs (I was supposed to be cycling but my bike had been lost on the flight from NY). IIRC I just camped each night, either in the base or just outside it. Anyway, as you know, it was like an Aladdin's cave - each corner you turned would throw up another tank. No-one ever bothered me, except one time some young guys saw me hanging around and invited me back to their parent's home for dinner (I still remember they had a pet pig, and we discussed the Falklands War). I guess those days are just gone, and won't return.

Dontos · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

Trevor

That is the one formally at 'the Brick Mess / Officers Club / Leaders Club'

As for the article,......'Rebranding' !?, thats revisionism at its worst.....

Yesterday while getting my new vehicle on-post registration sticker at the 'Welcome Center' at Chaffee Gate (aka Bullion Blvd entrance...) I noticed a sign,....."NO TOURING, FT KNOX IS A CLOSED POST!".

Sounds like they're not really interested in 'welcoming the neighbors' as is mentioned in the article. (!?)

Regards
Don

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

- TrevorLarkum

So that just leaves the question of whether it's the same M24 now on Bullion Boulevard. Don's suggestion is persuasive, since that one appeared soon after the other the other one disappeared not far away. I have therefore rewritten the text in a way that I think is most appropriate - please comment if you disagree:

Unique ID 1306: Fort Knox Chaffee Gate (ex Leaders Club) M24

If anyone has any photo's of this vehicle since 1983 I'd love to add them.

Ask and ye shall receive! An article has just been posted on Army.mil about the rebranding of Fort Knox, with a picture of this very tank. I've added the picture to the profile page:

Unique ID 1306: M24 at Chaffee Gate, Fort Knox

I'm now convinced it's the same one as was on Chaffee Avenue, not least because of the MG on the turret roof and the distorted front right mud flap.

Sad to say, though, according to the article they will be deliberately taking the 'armor' out of Fort Knox: "Although no names that memorialize heroes will be changed, some of the present nomenclature is a nod to armor traditions. By re-naming buildings or streets in their areas, workers-military or civilian-can identify more readily with their mission."

C_Sherman · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 590

- panamadan

An actual good gov't plan in action!
Dan

Even a blind skwirrel finds an acorn now and then... Smile

Chuck

Dontos · Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

Geeez Doug, you are showing your age! Mr. Green

I seem to remember seeing 'Stripes' at Disney Theater. It wasn't a first run as I was doing OSUT (One Station Unit Training... Basic & AIT together) in 1985.

Regards
Don

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:28 am Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

- panamadan

An actual good gov't plan in action!
Dan

Saw some great old films in Waybur...."Chato's Land", "Valdez is Coming", "Blackula" (OK, not Oscar material) and a few others.

Over at Olive it was "The Godfather", "The Abominable Dr. Phibes", "American Graffittii". I have pictures of a buddy and I doing our best "Igor" impression from Dr. Phibes...these do not bear viewing today. Rolling Eyes

...and several first run films at hangars and outdoor theaters sitting on rotor blades in VN. "The Cowboys", "Mephisto Waltz", "Gimme Shelter", "The Omega Man" and even the Costa-Gavras classic political thriller "Z".

JWB2 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 199

- panamadan

An actual good gov't plan in action!
Dan

For once!

panamadan · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 174

An actual good gov't plan in action!
Dan

Doug_Kibbey · Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: News from Ft Knox

- JWB2

What a beautiful old structure. Now that Knox is almost abandoned what will come of it?

Some life in the old girl yet....

aec.army.mil/usaec/new...n0907.html

"Fort Knox Finds Adaptive Reuse for Historic Movie Theater
Installation saves $1 million as it prepares for BRAC changes.
By R. Criss Helmkamp and Matthew D. Rector Fort Knox Environmental Management Division
The Waybur Theater on Fort Knox resembles its 1940s façade (above) but contains a state-of-the-art conference center.
Courtesy Fort Knox
The Waybur Theater on Fort Knox resembles its 1940s façade (above) but contains a state-of-the-art conference center.

Waybur Theater was constructed in 1936 during the first phase of permanent construction at Fort Knox, Ky. Built in the classical revival style, its zenith as a movie house coincided with the Golden Age of American cinema.

But by 2004, the era of the large, single-screen movie palace was long gone. Unused and vacant for over a decade, Waybur Theater had fallen into disrepair, another drain on the Garrison's already-stretched maintenance budget.

When it turned up on the fiscal 2004 installation demolition plan, its fate appeared to be sealed. However, the Fort Knox Cultural Resources Office requested a final opportunity to find an appropriate adaptive reuse.

The odds were slim. An attempt had been made to turn the building into administrative space, but a large theater does not lend itself to cost-efficient reuse in that way. Engineering such a transformation was unwieldy and the costs were clearly unfeasible.

Then came the 2005 round of Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC). BRAC changed many of the most fundamental aspects of Fort Knox. The Armor School was to relocate to Fort Benning, Ga. The Human Resources Center of Excellence, an Infantry Brigade Combat Team, and several Reserve commands were coming to Fort Knox. The net result was significant growth for Fort Knox. Among the assets required to accommodate the increased mission requirements was a need for a new conferencing center.

Remodeling Waybur Theater into the Waybur Theater Conferencing Center required extensive planning and coordination on and off post. Pat Appelman, Engineering and Services Division chief, served as project manager and architect.

The building is equipped for secure and non-secure briefings and seats 674. It features a 30-foot screen, high definition cameras and projectors, and a state-of-the art sound system. New fire alarms, sprinklers, plumbing, heating and air conditioning, lighting and seating provide maximum comfort and safety. Conferencing tables at the front of the auditorium are equipped with microphones, power strips and Internet connections.

The renovation preserved the building's historic integrity. Exterior features such as masonry and windows were not altered. Existing terrazzo floors were saved, compatible slate flooring was installed in other areas, and the hardwood surface of the stage was restored. And, perhaps most important, the Art Deco-inspired "feeling" of the main auditorium was preserved.

By transforming Waybur Theater into a 21st Century conference center, the Army saved more than $1 million compared to the cost of a new building. It also preserved a significant heritage asset and gained a facility to support many facets of Fort Knox's new mission."

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